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I dont think the SLs really belong on the track, except the black series maybe.

Seems kind of weird comparing a Mazda or Honda s2000 with the other 3 cars though. I just dont see the mazda or honda in the same league as the SL M3 or Lotus, regardless of how they do on the track. Same reason id never compare a Hyundai to a Porsche.
 

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I dont think the SLs really belong on the track, except the black series maybe.

Seems kind of weird comparing a Mazda or Honda s2000 with the other 3 cars though. I just dont see the mazda or honda in the same league as the SL M3 or Lotus, regardless of how they do on the track. Same reason id never compare a Hyundai to a Porsche.
I believe the purpose of the comparison was to determine how each sports car/GT performed on a race track (which is a strong indicator of how the cars behave when driven at their limits & also to provide insight into durability under extreme conditions), not whether the cars were in a financial purchase price league?

One may perhaps discount Honda or Mazda but that is unfounded. Both marques have enjoyed tremendous racing success upon which some of their road cars build upon (ie the engineering & materials knowledge used in the S2000, NSX, etc. come from their racing experience). Honda has been building & racing F1 cars & powerplants on & off since the 60's. Mazda too has had tremendous racing success which continues today using the Miata & RX-8 platforms...roadcars which they sell to the public....the Miata is the #1 sports car seller of all time in terms of total unit volume & revenue. I'd say putting low cost, reliable, highly competitve sports cars in the hands of consumers to experience is a good measure of a successful racing to consumer business strategy? :tu:

-Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I believe the purpose of the comparison was to determine how each sports car/GT performed on a race track (which is a strong indicator of how the cars behave when driven at their limits & also to provide insight into durability under extreme conditions), not whether the cars were in a financial purchase price league?

One may perhaps discount Honda or Mazda but that is unfounded. Both marques have enjoyed tremendous racing success upon which some of their road cars build upon (ie the engineering & materials knowledge used in the S2000, NSX, etc. come from their racing experience). Honda has been building & racing F1 cars & powerplants on & off since the 60's. Mazda too has had tremendous racing success which continues today using the Miata & RX-8 platforms...roadcars which they sell to the public....the Miata is the #1 sports car seller of all time in terms of total unit volume & revenue. I'd say putting low cost, reliable, highly competitve sports cars in the hands of consumers to experience is a good measure of a successful racing to consumer business strategy? :tu:

-Matt
Yes, I agree with you. R)

Also let's not forget the Mits. Evo's.........Very nice also. It is just a matter of taste and style.
 

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Ya but the SL is not a track car, its a luxury sports car, whereas the S2000 is a track car.

All im saying is they're comparing apples to oranges. Why not track a vette with a x5 or a c300 with a sports bike? Its not about the $.
 

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Ya but the SL is not a track car, its a luxury sports car, whereas the S2000 is a track car.

All im saying is they're comparing apples to oranges. Why not track a vette with a x5 or a c300 with a sports bike? Its not about the $.
What is and is not a track car is your opinion. The purpose of running sports cars on a track is to see how they handle extreme conditions & how truly "sporting" they actually are by evaluating them in terms of objective times & subjective behaviors against other sports cars (such as cornering transition behavior, brake fade, acceleration out of corners, etc).

Aside from the above, you said it yourself. The SL is a sports car (2 seats, low ride, VR rated tires on low profile rims, a high HP V8, etc). In fact, SL = Super Light (SLK = Super Light Kompact). Whether the SL has more built in luxury is not relavant? (911 Turbos, especially when well optioned, are quite luxurious...as is a 599, am LP560, or a Veyron). Sports cars are meant to be driven in a more "sporting" manner (on or off a track) unlike the X5 (a 4 door truck variant). The bike comment is also a different class vehicle (although some sports cars can obtain faster cars than even bikes :burnout:). Some sports cars hold up well at the track, others not so well (the 370Z brakes were found to quickly fade to the point of failure that Road & Track actually stuffed one due to inadequate brake shoe metalurgy....it's better to find out weaknesses like this on a track than on a road while carrying a familly member on public roads, yes? :Beer:)

I've tracked my cars at Seca & I have indeed seen ~ 3 SLs being tracked (an SL500, a 550, and a 63) during the last 3 yrs. Insurance firms also classify the car as a sports car and in fact, why the SL can be optioned with an air driven suspension to flatten the car while cornering to counter natural high g loading body lean.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
What is and is not a track car is your opinion. The purpose of running sports cars on a track is to see how they handle extreme conditions & how truly "sporting" they actually are by evaluating them in terms of objective times & subjective behaviors against other sports cars (such as cornering transition behavior, brake fade, acceleration out of corners, etc).

Aside from the above, you said it yourself. The SL is a sports car (2 seats, low ride, VR rated tires on low profile rims, a high HP V8, etc). In fact, SL = Super Light (SLK = Super Light Kompact). Whether the SL has more built in luxury is not relavant? (911 Turbos, especially when well optioned, are quite luxurious...as is a 599, am LP560, or a Veyron). Sports cars are meant to be driven in a more "sporting" manner (on or off a track) unlike the X5 (a 4 door truck variant). The bike comment is also a different class vehicle (although some sports cars can obtain faster cars than even bikes :burnout:). Some sports cars hold up well at the track, others not so well (the 370Z brakes were found to quickly fade to the point of failure that Road & Track actually stuffed one due to inadequate brake shoe metalurgy....it's better to find out weaknesses like this on a track than on a road while carrying a familly member on public roads, yes? :Beer:)

I've tracked my cars at Seca & I have indeed seen ~ 3 SLs being tracked (an SL500, a 550, and a 63) during the last 3 yrs. Insurance firms also classify the car as a sports car and in fact, why the SL can be optioned with an air driven suspension to flatten the car while cornering to counter natural high g loading body lean.
Agree.

On the Bike........I saw a YouTube video comparing a "sports bike" (I don't remember which brand it was) versus the new Nissan Skyline GTR on some very curvy track. The bike out accelerated the car on the track during the straightaways but during the curves and all............the bike had to slow down and the car over takes it easily. IDK, maybe the bike rider was not brave enough to go faster around the curves???
 

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Agree.

On the Bike........I saw a YouTube video comparing a "sports bike" (I don't remember which brand it was) versus the new Nissan Skyline GTR on some very curvy track. The bike out accelerated the car on the track during the straightaways but during the curves and all............the bike had to slow down and the car over takes it easily. IDK, maybe the bike rider was not brave enough to go faster around the curves???
You are correct. In general, Bikes do not corner as fast as cars due to the limited contact patch offered by 2 tires (this is why an F1 car is faster than say an AMA Superbike around La***e Seca). This lack of more surface area (vs a car) also hurts them in acceleration vs a car (but only when you are talking huge Hp output for the car - otherwise the bike accerates faster (from a stop or low speeds) than the car due to a better power-to-weight ratio). This is why dragsters are faster than the world's fastest dragbikes. From a roll (say 70 mph), a healthy horsepower car starts again getting an advantage due to a superior coefficient of drag (Cd) - it takes significantly greater power & torque to push air out of the way as velocity increases. Cheers. :tu:

-Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Nissan GTR vs a Ducati 1098s

You are correct. In general, Bikes do not corner as fast as cars due to the limited contact patch offered by 2 tires (this is why an F1 car is faster than say an AMA Superbike around La***e Seca). This lack of more surface area (vs a car) also hurts them in acceleration vs a car (but only when you are talking huge Hp output for the car - otherwise the bike accerates faster (from a stop or low speeds) than the car due to a better power-to-weight ratio). This is why dragsters are faster than the world's fastest dragbikes. From a roll (say 70 mph), a healthy horsepower car starts again getting an advantage due to a superior coefficient of drag (Cd) - it takes significantly greater power & torque to push air out of the way as velocity increases. Cheers. :tu:

-Matt

Check this out:
R)
 
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