[Dave2302]

Well our boat trip got cancelled due to excessive winds. Nope, we did not have Curry last night, that's tonite

I've got 3 of them and I'm assuming that you want one that I've not removed the green from?
Because you like green for some reason
That'll be the top one then

Yes um please um PM me wot to PayPal ya

My admittedly low-tech experimentation and thus conclusion is the same as yours in that they look the same but the boards are different. I'd suspect said person did a overlay and needle swap only

SRT-6 and X/Fire 160 MPH are identical pin outs.

There are a couple of Wire Colour differences, from R170 to X/Fire but they go to same pins Cluster and Component ends

There are only 2 differences in the Cluster Wiring Pin Outs between R170 and X/Fire

Plug 1 is Identical

Plug 2 is Identical except for ....

Plug 2 Pin 2j R170 is Plug 2 Pin 1i on X/Fire
Plug 2 Pin 2k R170 is Plug 2 Pin 1k on X/Fire ....



1) I'm gonna conclude you got a duff Cluster which caused your errant Needles

2) I'm gonna conclude that XF uses a different Fuel Tank Sensor to MB hence my errant Fuel Level readings , or perhaps that was due to the 2 different Pin Outs mentioned above back-feeding the Fuel Gauge somehow ??????????????????? So I will have to try swapping those pins to see if all is then well with Fuel Gauge

The PCB's have to be different for the different Fuel Low and perhaps other Warning Lamps

 

[nemiro]

My RD setup is completely platform agnostic. It won't care what kind of car it is installed in. At all. The main circuit board of the OE cluster remains, as it puts a lot of info out onto the CAN bus. I just add RD in parallel to it. So, this little issue you are having trying to use the SRT6 200mph gauge is a non-issue.

 

[nemiro]

BTW, I will do a little behind the scenes work on the RIB beginning the 24th of June, but real work will begin in early July, when the family goes to the farm for a few weeks, and I can work on cars to my heart's delight.

 

[M4rCu5]

Yes um please um PM me wot to PayPal ya

Umm, its surplus to requirements and you offered to do something FOC for me anyway .. that'll do for me, as and when I'll get the overlay in the post to you early next week 🙃

 

[Dave2302]

when the family goes to the farm for a few weeks, and I can work on cars to my heart's delight.

Can I send mine over to the Farm too

 

[nemiro]

You get them over here, they'll have a blast!

 

[ndevonn]

ok ... HELP ... my eyes are turning into hex eee dess eee mal balls of slush
can someone help me go back to basics for just a moment

will use a standard obd2 pid, say engine coolant, which is pid 05

using the online css converter we get

if i may ask one of those naive silly goofy questions ... how does all that hoohah above tie into:

0x0608, 0, 8 coolant temp

 

[nemiro]

You are looking at OBDII requests. Similar, but wrong thing.

 

[ndevonn]

You are looking at OBDII requests. Similar, but wrong thing.

yeah figures
now perhaps slightly off topic …..
though an obd reader calls and pulls pid info from the canbus with all those can id’s running around including the id’s which yield the standard pid05 for example … hope thats correct?
so if i wanted to call and pull something different to assemble a new pid for say oil temp 0x0308 is that doable?

 

[nemiro]

Possibly, but we are not concerned about anything OBD or building PIDs for specific tools. We just want to read the CAN messages directly.

 

[Dave2302]

Tomorrow I'm going to build a wooden re-inforced crate from 19mm Ply, 4 x 2 's and parts of a Pallet so that I can transport a huge double glazed panel (hopefully without breaking the toughened glass into a gazillion pieces), and also it will hold the new Front Entry Door, (un glazed until fitted to the building) and also the special wooden framework that surrounds the UPVC Door frame so that the Log Cabin walls can still rise and fall as they do seasonally without affecting the Door and its Frame.

That way it will not allow the Glass to flex in transit as the wooden structure will have a compartment soley for the glass, the Door will sit on top and the wood frame will sit to the side of it all

We will be picking it up from Worcestershire later on in June 2022 on the Saturday afternoon as the guy who runs the business doesn't normally work Saturdays so he will be taking his kids to football in the morning, but has been gracious enough to let us collect in the afternoon.

We are going down to collect the items in our 2014 W212 AMG E Class Wagon as with the rear Seats folded it has 2.2 m long x 1.2 m wide luggage area

Mel and I will stay with family for a couple of nights whilst we are down there, likely get a meal out and a few beers too

We decided to decline the couriers delivery quote of £950 + VAT, as I doubt the AMG Engine with my lead foot will cost that much for the 1200 mile round trip, even at current fuel prices (which will be paid for by the recipient of the new Door etc).

Also another bonus is we don't have a local Maccy D's, so I can get a big bag full of treats too

 

[Deplore]

ok ... HELP ... my eyes are turning into hex eee dess eee mal balls of slush
can someone help me go back to basics for just a moment

will use a standard obd2 pid, say engine coolant, which is pid 05

using the online css converter we get

if i may ask one of those naive silly goofy questions ... how does all that hoohah above tie into:

0x0608, 0, 8 coolant temp

When you request something from the OBD port, it is standardized. pid 05 works on MB to Ford to Heely to BMW motorcycles to semi trucks.

OBD port helps, but it is imperfect/impractical for our use case (realdash) due to latency involved. Your screenshot proves it...see the request line? Meaning the OBD device is shooting a request for more information in OBD, and waits for a response. So all these request/response for every single pid, that adds latency.

But tap direct to CAN, there is no need to send a request for more info, you can just pull the info direct from the CAN chatter. The ECU is constantly updating the IC for things like engine rpm, coolant temp sensor, oil temp sensor, oil pressure sensor (if equipped), battery voltage, etc.

Difference between the OBD and CAN direct is that with CAN direct, you have to figure out which CAN ID contains the info you want to know. This is what your average CAN chatter looks like:

This dump is specific to CAN anaylzer, other CAN dumps will have it in a different format, but the basic gist of it is the same. There is a time stamp, there is a data type, there is a standard/extended frame (more on this later in a different post), there is a ID, the length and the actual data.

To use the above example, line 0: CAN ID 0x003 is sending a 8 byte data (length), followed by the 8 byte data.

So let's take your 0x608 0 8 is where coolant temp is as an example:

0x608 would be the CAN ID (FRAME ID in the above example, the last three digits)

0 is the OFFSET. Offset means how many times you count to the right from the DATA. You could have many different information in a single 8 byte CAN packet, so you need a way to identify which bytes contain the info you need.

8 is the LENGTH of the data. I'm still learning, so I'm unclear as to which length they're referring to, but I'm pretty sure its in BITs, not BYTES. Many guides online are using both terms interchangeably. For reference, one BYTE has 16 BITS. So 8 would be the length where the coolant temp is encoded.

Sample data:
0x608 8 00 11 22 33 44 55 66 77

Rule: 0x608 0 8 = Coolant temp

In above example, the offset starts from 0, meaning there is no offset, you count from 00 byte.

Length is the length of the data packet holding the info, so 8 bits. (I'm still unclear about this, need to read up about this some more)

Then you convert from hex to text, then do math to arrive at the actual temp. Your screenshot illustrates this perfectly:

The formula to calculate coolant temp is -40 + 1 * X = Y

X is the text conversion of hexadecimal value, so if you convert 12 hex to text, you get 18. Then you do math to answer for Y, and then it is -22C.

Suppose you also need to know intake air temp, it is contained in the same 608 packet.

Rules are as such: 0x0608, 8, 8, intake air temp

Offset 8, length 8. So the info is located on the BYTE 77 in the sample above, and then you also do the same math (or different math, depending on formula) to arrive at the conclusion.

Honestly I'm still learning, currently stuck on how to decode the packets.

In my case, the engine RPM in the CLA45 is located in the first two bytes. There is no formula involved, as long as you convert the first two bytes into text, you get the actual engine rpm. 08be is 2238, 090b is 2315, and so on. But the rules that I'm finding online don't match, and if I follow the rules, I get garbage. So more learning is in the order.

 

[ndevonn]

Possibly, but we are not concerned about anything OBD or building PIDs for specific tools. We just want to read the CAN messages directly.

understood

 

[ndevonn]

When you request something from the OBD port, it is standardized. pid 05 works on MB to Ford to Heely to BMW motorcycles to semi trucks.
OBD port helps, but it is imperfect/impractical for our use case (realdash) due to latency involved. Your screenshot proves it...see the request line? Meaning the OBD device is shooting a request for more information in OBD, and waits for a response. So all these request/response for every single pid, that adds latency.
But tap direct to CAN, there is no need to send a request for more info, you can just pull the info direct from the CAN chatter. The ECU is constantly updating the IC for things like engine rpm, coolant temp sensor, oil temp sensor, oil pressure sensor (if equipped), battery voltage, etc.......

thank you for taking the time to post this -- lots to digest !!
yes agree for the work you experts are doing with the gauge displays the latency is a drag
i will hurt my old brain cells to understand your post and may toss out some queries
pretty sure it may help some other folks too

in the mean time I dug up some old data using a "canable" adapter (think it was from protofusion??)
it was just for fun at the time ... though now I can try to make some sense of it with the info from your post - thank you
(definitely need to update my software suites)

 

[Deplore]

That's not a bad software, it looks like it keeps the CAN ID but shows the difference in data, the difference is highlighted.

That would make it easy to debug/reverse engineer. My can dump is just a dump, it just looks like visual vomit that's sorted by the time.

 

[ndevonn]

That's not a bad software, it looks like it keeps the CAN ID but shows the difference in data, the difference is highlighted.

That would make it easy to debug/reverse engineer. My can dump is just a dump, it just looks like visual vomit that's sorted by the time.

sorry … that was me
i compiled the off state and on state into the spreadsheet just for a basic look at what systems woke up when ignition was on
though from what i have read there are “smart” software packages nowadays?
back then i was looking at savvycan and cangaroo cuz those had this ascii column so hex blind nuts like me could still read something in english

i tell ya canable cangaroo canoe canking canlab cantact … the pun names just dont stop

 

[nemiro]

Looks like your software is converting the CAN IDs to decimal. They need to be in hex to be truly usable.

 

[ndevonn]

think thats just cantact or some setting within
gonna have to go back to school and learn the various packages again - and pick one
though pretty sure can id’s can be set to show up as hex

 

[Dave2302]

I'm now rebuilding the Dave Mk 1 Hybrid Shifter, have now skipped "Dave Hybrid Shifter 1.5" and gone straight into the deep end with "Dave Hybrid Shifter 2.0" which will hopefully be the final incarnation with my Paddle Shifter Wiring integrated, the Mode Button / PRND Display fitted into it's top frame, working Park Interlock Solenoid and working Reverse Lamps

It's a very fiddly job, a bit like rebuilding an old Clock with modern guts

 

[Dave2302]

Who all can think far enough back to remember this little weldathon gem covered in this very Epic Novel errrrrm Thread ....









It's been parked up in the Garage / Paint Booth for gawd knows how long, and as I'm finishing off painting the last couple of bits of woodwork (Filter Frames) in there, I had to move it outta da building ............

Current Bun was out, nice dry roads so I fired the old (@M4rCu5 ) V6 Hairdresser Edition up, ..........



.......... popped the Trade Plates on, dropped the Roof, and took it for a quick blast around the Kintail Race Track, ermmm I mean "Road Test Route", about 10 miles round trip, a good wee blast

I must admit this one is a lot easier to control than the V8 when drifting it around the Causeway bend which is around 600m long, mainly because it doesn't have anywhere near as much grunt as my Blue V8 Car nor anywhere near the same grip level, so it's actually a breeze to hang it's 'arris out all the way around that big curve at a much slower velocity 👿 👿 👿

Mind, as I turned around 180 degrees at the Jacobite turning, and if the honking and gestures outta his window were anything to go by, I don't think "Mr BMW yak yak yak Touristicle" eejit (who had failed miserably to keep up with me since I pulled outta me driveway), had actually enjoyed driving through the thick fog that I created with this tatty looking SLK whilst barbecueing the 245 / 40 x 17 Dunlop rears fitted to the HE

I've left it in the Workshop as I've a couple more coats of White Paint to do around those 4 Filter Frames and I'm not too busy this w/e so I'll likely give that last right rear 1/4 panel a couple more wipes of Filler and maybe get some more Epoxy Primer on the beggar so it'll be a step closer to painting both rear 1/4 panels and a few wee touch ins.

I'm still waiting on a couple of Arduino bits to progress the 7G install, so will bung the V8 Car away tomorrow once the Intake and Extract filters are final fitted in the Paint Booth / Garage

The Blue V8 needs a good wash and it's p'ssisting down outside now, so that'll get all the Workshop dust off it over night

Chow fer now