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1998 slk230 r170
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HI All, I have fitted a big 220 mm crank pulley and 4 bar fuel PR TO my 98 230slk. all the tuners seem to tune through obd2 port. whereas with ME2.0 chip removal is needed. Speer are the only people i have found who will work on this and i have to remove chip and apparently they send a replacement. Anyone done this. MY car is running fine and produces max 8psi. . I Have smaller s/charger pulley i could fit as well to produce a bit more power but boost seems limited as ecu restrict boost..it seems! I have thought about clamping maf with 4.7 v zener but i am not sure if this is the only restriction. Anyone have any thoughts.
 

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Premium Member 2002 R170 SLK V8 5.0
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all the tuners seem to tune through obd2 port. whereas with ME2.0 chip removal is needed.
You have answered your own question there ;)

Not all ECU's can be done via OBD.

I only work with ME2.8's much much easier to tune, although I don't use OBD I use a Programmer and write the flash file.

As you say Speer will supply Chips, but removal and more so re soldering is iffy at best, if you brick it you then have Drive Authorisation (immobiliser) Issue, which again ME2.0 is harder to clone a good used ECU ;)

@Alex.M-oneeleven may well know more than I on this ;)

HTH :)
 

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1999 Slk 230 r170 turbo
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Thank you @Avel Du and @Dave2302.

Hi Jules,
So with the Bosch ME2.0 system it is old but you don't have to remove the chip both my Clk and Slk (the Slk is now mine for anyone that follows me😉) were both remapped by ourselves using only eBay tuner tools and a spare M111 engine harness. This sounds a bit risky and it is if you don't know what you are doing, we had no idea what we were doing 😂.

Anyway the ECU does have to come out of the car and be mapped on the bench so to speak, now it was Ben that actually did the remap so I can't tell you everything about how to do it all I know is 1 wire had to go to a certain point on the ECU to allow us to upload a new map. As I was saying on a thread last night we didn't have the benefit of what's called a definition file so Ben had to spend a lot of time figuring out what does what in the Map. Basically with a definition file that tells you which one is the spark map which one is the fuel map which one is timing and so on without that you still see the separate maps in the tuning software but they do not have a title only numbers. But realistically the tuner needs the full ECU for the checksum it's not something that can be done remotely unless both parties know exactly what they are doing.

The best thing I would suggest is get a AFR gauge see what your fuels doing, you have clearly done some research on the MAF topping out we used a resistor temporarily but the car had no real drivability. We ended up fitting megasquirt 3 as it just gave us more ability to tune the parameters we needed to.

Unfortunately due to how these ECUs are done not many tuners like to tune them. The reason for that is simple most tuners are not "tuners" at all they are just someone with a laptop that uploads a generic map from a online database, so when it comes to not being able to just plug into the OBD they're not interested either 1: they don't know how to or 2: they just aren't interested and just want quick easy jobs to make a quick buck.

Some tuners will touch these cars but they are few and far between, this is why I say at the moment due to lack of support if your car is a manual/stick switch to standalone if your dead set on tuning the ECU. Things get a lot more complicated if it's a Automatic because to switch to standalone you also need a standalone transmission controller like we did, and so far that has not worked right since we fitted it. As much as I would like to say yes it's easy to tune the stock ECU it isn't I would rather keep the stock ECU but unfortunately there just isn't the support right now for them, which is something I would like to change but I'm not clever enough to.

Probably not what you wanted to hear but this is the current reality of tuning these cars, but MAF wise look in the direction of Audi V8 MAF sensors. 🙂
 

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1999 Slk 230 r170 turbo
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Just to add to this I want to share this with you and there's a very good reason for this.


Now I'm no expert on reading plugs so expect there maybe some errors in my statements. But the main point I want to convey with this, is that this same ECU map was perfect for our Slk when we first tuned that with the Supercharger. The map burned clean the car had plenty of power (ish) but it wasn't rich.
Now we trusted this map and decided to just upload it into the Clk ECU, now if you watch that video you will see how the spark plugs tell a very different story.

This is all the same hardware similar milage but the plugs show a very different running condition. Now like in the video I say we mapped it blind which is true, it was only later on that we got a AFR gauge as the LD performance one we had originally was faulty.

This highlights exactly why I believe that every car should have a custom tune specific to that vehicle. Anyway we are going to go back and trim some fuel out get some more ponies back.

However Speer are good, I'm just warning against generic remaps that's just my personal feeling. But if anyone wants to get their car remapped that way that's their personal choice I respect that I just want to back up what I was saying with evidence 🙂
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
thank you very much for the info. i tend to be a do it myself guy and cant really trust people to put a generic map on my car.I have only the 220 mm pulley at the moment and with the uprated fuel pressure regulator colder plugs. it is much more responsive. I will be putting a extra lambda sensor in the exhaust pipes so i can see what is actually happening. If i used the smaller supercharger pulley as well it would be driven at 2.7 ratio. which is workable especially if i do a bit of blower porting. I am pretty good at plug reading as i used to Drag race so after the adaptive. if fitted. has settled down I will have a read of the plugs.. the main problem with the merc system is soon as it produces decent boost the diverter valve opens and holds the boost. i would like to remove the chip and change these parts but as of now i don't know how. As you say in the end it might be better to do a stand alone, but which part controls the auto? more problems i think. In previous years I have turboed a capri (long time ago ) and a 2litre alfa .I however like the instant response of a supercharger. With Bosch me2.0 i believe the chip i need to look at is the motorola mhc11e 4e28bmask set. Do you know what hardware and software is needed to read and write this chip. cheers for any help you can give
jules
 

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1999 Slk 230 r170 turbo
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thank you very much for the info. i tend to be a do it myself guy and cant really trust people to put a generic map on my car.I have only the 220 mm pulley at the moment and with the uprated fuel pressure regulator colder plugs. it is much more responsive. I will be putting a extra lambda sensor in the exhaust pipes so i can see what is actually happening. If i used the smaller supercharger pulley as well it would be driven at 2.7 ratio. which is workable especially if i do a bit of blower porting. I am pretty good at plug reading as i used to Drag race so after the adaptive. if fitted. has settled down I will have a read of the plugs.. the main problem with the merc system is soon as it produces decent boost the diverter valve opens and holds the boost. i would like to remove the chip and change these parts but as of now i don't know how. As you say in the end it might be better to do a stand alone, but which part controls the auto? more problems i think. In previous years I have turboed a capri (long time ago ) and a 2litre alfa .I however like the instant response of a supercharger. With Bosch me2.0 i believe the chip i need to look at is the motorola mhc11e 4e28bmask set. Do you know what hardware and software is needed to read and write this chip. cheers for any help you can give
jules
I think Ben used a eBay Kess unit and a galetto thing aswell as ECM titanium that came with the Kess kit I believe but you can't have it on a computer that's online, as per with anything eBay related I can't say it's legitimate is the best way to put it. But like I say the ECU needs to be removed from the car and spare wiring harness makes this a lot easier 😉.

The auto transmission is controlled by a separate TCU think but let me double check on that, but the controller we used cost 800+ euros onto of the £320 for the standalone ECU but even then you still have to retain the stock ECU for certain functions. It gets very complicated 😂.

Best thing is to get a AFR gauge like you say then you know if your rich or lean, the bypass valve is your biggest enemy when I have a bit more spare money I'm going to try revisiting using a vacuum bypass valve (50mm Bov). When you map them you can control the bypass valve so mine doesn't bleed so much of the boost off, this means mine stock behaves like it already has an overdrive pulley.

These FR5DC plugs are fine for the power we are making even at 300hp they still work well the main thing is set them to about 0.7mm gap. 😃
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The kess/galetto were some on the units I have been looking at. I can probably buy a spare harness . I have a spare ecu but once again it would, apparently, have to be cloned/coped so it would work on my car. I was thinking of just stopping the bypass valve from working. What could be the worst thing that could happen.LOL. with a blower you will not get the crazy boost levels you can get with Turbo. I used to run my turbo alfa with about 25psi boost. That was 20 years ago without all the electronics you can now get for control measures. so getting the merc to 1 bar 14.7 psi should be attainable. Its just being able to get into that ECU and reprogram. I use 2 steps colder plugs but cant remember what they are. The hard bit will be in the reprogramming knowing which code controls which map. I will need help from someone with this bit. cheers
 

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The kess/galetto were some on the units I have been looking at. I can probably buy a spare harness . I have a spare ecu but once again it would, apparently, have to be cloned/coped so it would work on my car. I was thinking of just stopping the bypass valve from working. What could be the worst thing that could happen.LOL. with a blower you will not get the crazy boost levels you can get with Turbo. I used to run my turbo alfa with about 25psi boost. That was 20 years ago without all the electronics you can now get for control measures. so getting the merc to 1 bar 14.7 psi should be attainable. Its just being able to get into that ECU and reprogram. I use 2 steps colder plugs but cant remember what they are. The hard bit will be in the reprogramming knowing which code controls which map. I will need help from someone with this bit. cheers
That's the problem we had as we didn't have and still don't have a definition file so it's trial and error unti you get it really not a recommended method 🤣we could have easily destroyed and engine.

As for the bypass valve it's a little more complicated if the system can't vent the right amount of boost the car bucks and stutters and we'll becomes very much undrivable, been there done that even using a mini cooper s bypass valve (vacuum operated) didn't work. The main thing to think about is the engine breathes through the bypass valve before the clutch pulley engages the Supercharger, so if the bypass valve is blocked off it the engine has to breath through the stationary Supercharger which is a huge restriction making your car very sluggish to launch. When working with any forced induction there are key things to keep in mind obvious ones are flow and pressure but what people don't always see is the difference between Supercharger and Turbo.

Supercharger = more volume @lower pressure
Turbo = high pressure @ lower volume

So a GT 35 turbo like our is happy with a 25mm Bov at 1.0bar, but if you use a 25mm Bov one a M62 @0.7 bar the chances are some serious damage is going to occur to the charger. So to simplify a M62 Supercharger needs a minimum size Bov of 50mm, but even then the Bosch ME2.0 management doesn't like not controling the boost itself. But there is also key differences between a BOV and a Bypass Valve, a BOV is closed at idle so no air can get in or out a Supercharger Bypass valve is open at idle even aftermarket ones for these big blower cars so the engine can breathe.

I know that's a lot to take in but knowledge is power 😉
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
That's the problem we had as we didn't have and still don't have a definition file so it's trial and error unti you get it really not a recommended method 🤣we could have easily destroyed and engine.

As for the bypass valve it's a little more complicated if the system can't vent the right amount of boost the car bucks and stutters and we'll becomes very much undrivable, been there done that even using a mini cooper s bypass valve (vacuum operated) didn't work. The main thing to think about is the engine breathes through the bypass valve before the clutch pulley engages the Supercharger, so if the bypass valve is blocked off it the engine has to breath through the stationary Supercharger which is a huge restriction making your car very sluggish to launch. When working with any forced induction there are key things to keep in mind obvious ones are flow and pressure but what people don't always see is the difference between Supercharger and Turbo.

Supercharger = more volume @lower pressure
Turbo = high pressure @ lower volume

So a GT 35 turbo like our is happy with a 25mm Bov at 1.0bar, but if you use a 25mm Bov one a M62 @0.7 bar the chances are some serious damage is going to occur to the charger. So to simplify a M62 Supercharger needs a minimum size Bov of 50mm, but even then the Bosch ME2.0 management doesn't like not controling the boost itself. But there is also key differences between a BOV and a Bypass Valve, a BOV is closed at idle so no air can get in or out a Supercharger Bypass valve is open at idle even aftermarket ones for these big blower cars so the engine can breathe.

I know that's a lot to take in but knowledge is power 😉
Sowhat i wanted to do was make the supercharger run all the time IE just dump s/charger clutch and put fixed pully on. then get rid of bypass. the engine would be breathing thru blower all the time. then just the fueling,ignition and boost to sort out!
 

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Sowhat i wanted to do was make the supercharger run all the time IE just dump s/charger clutch and put fixed pully on. then get rid of bypass. the engine would be breathing thru blower all the time. then just the fueling,ignition and boost to sort out!
That is possible but you still need to be able to vent boost when off throttle, a turbo you can get away with not having a BOV but a Supercharger must have a way to vent the boost off throttle.

When you don't have a BOV on a Turbo engine off throttle you get that stututu noise that we all know and love from the group B rally era, that's called compressor surge causes by the air escaping out back through the compressor wheel which over time wears out the bearings faster and causes compressor stall making it more laggy. Apply the same principle to a Supercharger the air will back flow into that charger causing rotor stall only in a Supercharger it won't escape back out the intake, it just puts massive staring on the bearings forcing the rotors to contact the housing ultimately destroying your charger.

Now a 50mm Bov may work with the Supercharger spinning all the time but the Bov must not be located near the MAF and definitely not after the MAF, due to how the MAF meters the air flow. But I have a feeling the Bosch management still won't like not having control, but from running a M62 on a IS200 lexus I know a 50mm BOV works fine with that Supercharger. Your enemy goes from being the bypass valve to being the engine management. Now when I tried it with a mini cooper s valve I now know that 38mm is too small I didn't back then hence wanting to revisit the idea using a 50mm Bov. It may work it may not but your not the only one who would like to have more control over the boost. I do think this has likely already been tried and tested but I'm not sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I want it okay so you already know enough to make half of what I just said irrelevant 😂 what power you going with that beast?
20 years ago it ran 1/4 mile in 7.00 @198 since then new blower clutch etc etc . was making 850 should now be approx 1000.just cant afford to run it these days.
 

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20 years ago it ran 1/4 mile in 7.00 @198 since then new blower clutch etc etc . was making 850 should now be approx 1000.just cant afford to run it these days.
Hole cheese balls that's fast, I can imagine drag racing isn't cheap with any vehicle is it. Something I wouldn't mind trying on 4 wheels though although I have my full bike license I passed that before my car license and grew up around bikes. Infact my old school tutor who was a family friend used to spend a lot of time at Santa Pod on his street bike.

But hats off that is awesome we should probably go back to original chat before we get too far off topic 😉 always happy to chat about stuff like that in messages though 😃.
 

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Registered 2014 SLK250
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... “go back to original chat ...”
good grief i thought you want to use 2400baud modems again
nevermind me
wheres my coffee ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
That is possible but you still need to be able to vent boost when off throttle, a turbo you can get away with not having a BOV but a Supercharger must have a way to vent the boost off throttle.

When you don't have a BOV on a Turbo engine off throttle you get that stututu noise that we all know and love from the group B rally era, that's called compressor surge causes by the air escaping out back through the compressor wheel which over time wears out the bearings faster and causes compressor stall making it more laggy. Apply the same principle to a Supercharger the air will back flow into that charger causing rotor stall only in a Supercharger it won't escape back out the intake, it just puts massive staring on the bearings forcing the rotors to contact the housing ultimately destroying your charger.

Now a 50mm Bov may work with the Supercharger spinning all the time but the Bov must not be located near the MAF and definitely not after the MAF, due to how the MAF meters the air flow. But I have a feeling the Bosch management still won't like not having control, but from running a M62 on a IS200 lexus I know a 50mm BOV works fine with that Supercharger. Your enemy goes from being the bypass valve to being the engine management. Now when I tried it with a mini cooper s valve I now know that 38mm is too small I didn't back then hence wanting to revisit the idea using a 50mm Bov. It may work it may not but your not the only one who would like to have more control over the boost. I do think this has likely already been tried and tested but I'm not sure.
i could make a Bov and control it and let the bosch thinks it doing something by using dummy loads etc.i must get back in the shed and try some of this stuf. below is another project of mine i dont really have time for.lol
596897
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hole cheese balls that's fast, I can imagine drag racing isn't cheap with any vehicle is it. Something I wouldn't mind trying on 4 wheels though although I have my full bike license I passed that before my car license and grew up around bikes. Infact my old school tutor who was a family friend used to spend a lot of time at Santa Pod on his street bike.

But hats off that is awesome we should probably go back to original chat before we get too far off topic 😉 always happy to chat about stuff like that in messages though 😃.
i have made blow off valves etc so could probably make one that would do for the merc 2.3 engine. just need to get the boost from the eaton up without heating too much. opening up the inlet and outlet port. i am getting a spare engine this week so i can play with the head and see if valves etc can be inproved.
 
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