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Discussion Starter #1
I seem to have developed an issue with starting my car, and I think the problem is related to the fuel system. Hoping someone else had a similar issue and can advise.

When I go to start the car, I need to put the key in position 2 (run) for about 10 seconds before I turn it to position 3 (start). Or I need to hold it in position 3 for an extended period of time. If I don't, the car won't start and then the "security feature" won't allow me to turn the key to the start position again.

When I'm waiting those 10 seconds, I can hear the fuel pump pressuring the system, so that's why I think it might be at fault. From what I've read online, it's normal for the pump on the R170's to be loud, which it is.

Should I replace the fuel pump as a preventative measure?
Are there other things that can cause the fuel system to quickly depressurize after turning off the engine? I've not seen any leaks; unless it's a injector leaking inside the cylinder or something weird like that.

Some side details for context:
- The problem happens at any start, not just when I've let the car sit for a while
- I was told by my dealer that my car has the "tip start" feature
- My ignition was replaced this year. The problem was a worn tumbler, but they replaced the security sensor ring too.
- I replaced the fuel filter this fall thinking a dirty/clogged filter might be causing the issue
- My knowledge of cars is limited to hobbyist. I don't have a fuel pressure tester.
 

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Registered 2001 SLK320
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889 Posts
I seem to have developed an issue with starting my car, and I think the problem is related to the fuel system. Hoping someone else had a similar issue and can advise.

When I go to start the car, I need to put the key in position 2 (run) for about 10 seconds before I turn it to position 3 (start). Or I need to hold it in position 3 for an extended period of time. If I don't, the car won't start and then the "security feature" won't allow me to turn the key to the start position again.

When I'm waiting those 10 seconds, I can hear the fuel pump pressuring the system, so that's why I think it might be at fault. From what I've read online, it's normal for the pump on the R170's to be loud, which it is.

Should I replace the fuel pump as a preventative measure?
Are there other things that can cause the fuel system to quickly depressurize after turning off the engine? I've not seen any leaks; unless it's a injector leaking inside the cylinder or something weird like that.

Some side details for context:
- The problem happens at any start, not just when I've let the car sit for a while
- I was told by my dealer that my car has the "tip start" feature
- My ignition was replaced this year. The problem was a worn tumbler, but they replaced the security sensor ring too.
- I replaced the fuel filter this fall thinking a dirty/clogged filter might be causing the issue
- My knowledge of cars is limited to hobbyist. I don't have a fuel pressure tester.
Somebody needs to chime in here but I cannot find any reference to “ tip start” (non-Keyless Go) in my 2001 manual. Tip start requires a smart key and we don’t have them.
I am not aware smart keys were installed in these cars or in particular North American cars.
If I had to bet fuel pump.
 

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Registered 2000 SLK200K
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358 Posts
check-valve for fuel pressure is located inside the pump, if I remember correctly. also the pressure regulator should be inside the filter. or vice versa.
as you already replaced the filter, probably it is the pump causing the issue. also a new pump will run alot quiter.

just grab a fuel pressure tester and test the pressure during ingition on and off. very easy, just like checking a tire pressure.
pressure should not drop rapidly in pos 2. (~3.5 bar after priming and around 4 bar engine running) check my vid's before and after new pump and filter. I had slow pressure drop even which caused problems while starting time to time.

https://youtu.be/s8QbVvPoifY

https://youtu.be/_m0t8Mb16ig
 

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Premium Member 2001 SLK200K/2001 SLK320
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1,977 Posts
@Alex 3

"Tip Start: A feature that allows the driver to crank and start the engine by turning the key to the start position and then releasing it (instead of holding it in the Start position)."


As far as I'm aware, we only have this on the V6 M112 engines, @Dave2302 would know more about that than me though.

EDIT
Found Dave's thread regarding this - HERE - :tu:
 

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Registered 2002 R170 SLK V8 5.0
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2,895 Posts
Hi @M4rCu5 ,

I think it is only available on Cars with ME 2.8 ECU, which all V6's have, it is not to do with IR vs Blade key :)

I am curious to find out whether the later 4 Cylinder Engines run on ME 2.8, or whether they ended production still running ME 2.0, mainly to give Aaron @Turdo2 a definitive answer whether we can convert a 4 cylinder ECU to V8 :wink:

If the car has ME 2.8 the "Latching Starter Cranking" can be turned on or off Via SDS Version Coding in ME ECU :grin:

I have recently found out that the ME2.8 in the R170 seems to be a one of a kind, they have a unique Cranking and Cruise Control wiring method, and so when compared to all the other ECU's either V6 or V8 there is actually a lot of extra SMD Components on the Circuit Board too many to retrofit really without a specialist PCB Production facility ................

The ML uses the same Blade Type Key as R170, but that doesn't have extra ECU Components, it uses an EIS Emulator instead !!

That is the main reason many many have had problems with the V6 to V8 Conversion and given up or seriously compromised when trying to use the V8 ECU's !!

Me being me has discovered the "Top Secret" method that the likes of Osterle Tuning and a couple of others use to get these working, although I have still seen Crossfire owners who have used Pro Companies for their ECU's but still complain of no Cruise and very long cranking Times using a Starter Button, which I was not gonna put up with .............

Oh no no no >:D

I have now almost certainly cracked the issue by Reworking the V6 R170 PCB with a lot lot lot fewer SMD Components >:D

I am now adding these components to an R170 V6 ECU and using a Custom ECU write of 3 separate chips so it will run the V8 Engine correctly on all 8 Cylinders, Crank and Start how it should and Cruise / LIM should work fine :grin:

Final testing will be once my Garage build is finished, but I have had the V8 Donor Car running perfectly on an old EBay hacker V6 ECU with Coil and Injector Driver Components added, and my Custom Hex Writes >:D

I now have a V6 R170 ECU patiently waiting for conversion and final test before removing the V6 amabob and converting my Car to V8 :grin:

HTH, Cheers Dave
 

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Registered 2001 SLK320
Joined
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889 Posts
@Alex 3

"Tip Start: A feature that allows the driver to crank and start the engine by turning the key to the start position and then releasing it (instead of holding it in the Start position)."


As far as I'm aware, we only have this on the V6 M112 engines, @Dave2302 would know more about that than me though.

EDIT
Found Dave's thread regarding this - HERE - :tu:

I have had 12 of these cars over 33 yr and the first with a Smart key but not Keyless go in a W208 and Keyless Go in a few but I have never heard the term Tip Start. Except the keyless go cars it was always turn right to start and release on the smart key. That signaled the ECU to crank the engine until it starts. Both R170s and both W124 E had the same blade key and they had to held until the engine started. Interesting,
 

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Registered 2000 SLK200K
Joined
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358 Posts
Hi @M4rCu5 ,

I think it is only available on Cars with ME 2.8 ECU, which all V6's have, it is not to do with IR vs Blade key <img src="http://www.slkworld.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />

I am curious to find out whether the later 4 Cylinder Engines run on ME 2.8, or whether they ended production still running ME 2.0, mainly to give Aaron @Turdo2 a definitive answer whether we can convert a 4 cylinder ECU to V8 <img src="http://www.slkworld.com/images/SLKWorld_2014/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />

If the car has ME 2.8 the "Latching Starter Cranking" can be turned on or off Via SDS Version Coding in ME ECU <img src="http://www.slkworld.com/images/SLKWorld_2014/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />

I have recently found out that the ME2.8 in the R170 seems to be a one of a kind, they have a unique Cranking and Cruise Control wiring method, and so when compared to all the other ECU's either V6 or V8 there is actually a lot of extra SMD Components on the Circuit Board too many to retrofit really without a specialist PCB Production facility ................

The ML uses the same Blade Type Key as R170, but that doesn't have extra ECU Components, it uses an EIS Emulator instead !!

That is the main reason many many have had problems with the V6 to V8 Conversion and given up or seriously compromised when trying to use the V8 ECU's !!

Me being me has discovered the "Top Secret" method that the likes of Osterle Tuning and a couple of others use to get these working, although I have still seen Crossfire owners who have used Pro Companies for their ECU's but still complain of no Cruise and very long cranking Times using a Starter Button, which I was not gonna put up with .............

Oh no no no <img src="http://www.slkworld.com/images/SLKWorld_2014/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" class="inlineimg" />

I have now almost certainly cracked the issue by Reworking the V6 R170 PCB with a lot lot lot fewer SMD Components <img src="http://www.slkworld.com/images/SLKWorld_2014/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" class="inlineimg" />

I am now adding these components to an R170 V6 ECU and using a Custom ECU write of 3 separate chips so it will run the V8 Engine correctly on all 8 Cylinders, Crank and Start how it should and Cruise / LIM should work fine <img src="http://www.slkworld.com/images/SLKWorld_2014/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />

Final testing will be once my Garage build is finished, but I have had the V8 Donor Car running perfectly on an old EBay hacker V6 ECU with Coil and Injector Driver Components added, and my Custom Hex Writes <img src="http://www.slkworld.com/images/SLKWorld_2014/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" class="inlineimg" />

I now have a V6 R170 ECU patiently waiting for conversion and final test before removing the V6 amabob and converting my Car to V8 <img src="http://www.slkworld.com/images/SLKWorld_2014/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />

HTH, Cheers Dave

facelift 4 cylinders run on SIM4LE
 

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Registered 2002 R170 SLK V8 5.0
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2,895 Posts
I have had 12 of these cars over 33 yr and the first with a Smart key but not Keyless go in a W208 and Keyless Go in a few but I have never heard the term Tip Start. Except the keyless go cars it was always turn right to start and release on the smart key. That signaled the ECU to crank the engine until it starts. Both R170s and both W124 E had the same blade key and they had to held until the engine started. Interesting,
Hi Alex,

In actual fact that term "Tip Start" is incorrect, Mercedes actually call it "Touch Start" and the Version Coding for "Present" and "Not Present" is lines 0200 - 0201 in ME 2.8 ECU :wink:

HTH, Cheers Dave
 

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Premium Member 2001 SLK200K/2001 SLK320
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1,977 Posts
lol

I've never heard of that term either and had to look it up, found it on a Chrysler/Jeep site so it's all down to locale terminology I guess >:D
 

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Registered 2002 R170 SLK V8 5.0
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2,895 Posts
Hi,

Aaron @Turdo2 sent me a link to pictures of the Facelift 4 Cylinder ECU, it appears to be some form of ME 2.8, but Plug 2 is not populated with any connector pins, so I very much doubt it's PCB is the same, therefore it would likely not be suitable to add Components to upgrade to V6 or V8 for use in Engine Conversions .................

Which is of course, as per my "middle name" totally "Off Topic" lmao

Cheers Dave
 

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Premium Member 2001 SLK200K/2001 SLK320
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1,977 Posts
Hi,

Aaron @Turdo2 sent me a link to pictures of the Facelift 4 Cylinder ECU, it appears to be some form of ME 2.8, but Plug 2 is not populated with any connector pins, so I very much doubt it's PCB is the same, therefore it would likely not be suitable to add Components to upgrade to V6 or V8 for use in Engine Conversions .................

Which is of course, as per my "middle name" totally "Off Topic" lmao

Cheers Dave
Hadn't noticed at all :D

So .. back on topic, and having established that the 230 doesn't have tip or touch start, what's wrong with OP's car? Do we agree on the fuel pump?
 

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Registered 2002 R170 SLK V8 5.0
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2,895 Posts
@Rofa , @M4rCu5 ,

Look on SDS at "Version Codings", it may be that they all can do it, but most just aren't Version Coded from factory "Touch Start Present" and thus enable the function :wink:

I can certainly turn it on and off in the ME 2.8 ECU's >:D

HTH, Cheers Dave
 

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Premium Member 2007 SLK55 AMG
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256 Posts
Tip Start

Throwing, possibly, a spanner in the works, @Alex3 @M4rCu5 my 1997 230K does have "tipp"/touch start.
My 2007 manual also calls out "Turn the Smartkey in the starter switch to position 3 and release it immediately. The engine starts automatically.", but only for the automatics.
 

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Registered 2001 SLK320
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889 Posts
My 2007 manual also calls out "Turn the Smartkey in the starter switch to position 3 and release it immediately. The engine starts automatically.", but only for the automatics.

That is explained simply because in 2007 the Smart Key was the basic technology.
As I said, in all my years and 12 cars the term Touch Start has not been anything I have heard and it for sure in not in the 2001 manual. Maybe its a market feature such as the LIM on the cruise control.
The car I have now has it but it came from the Japanese market. My 2001 and all the others did not have LIM. The 2014 SLK, the 2015 CLA45 AMG had distronic but no LIM on any car other than this one.
I am going to check my car tomorrow for this feature. Maybe it is me just holding the key until it starts. Stay tuned,
 

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Registered 2002 R170 SLK V8 5.0
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2,895 Posts
Hi,

"Smart Key" for 2007 is still DAS 3, which is exactly the same Technology as the 2002 W220 etc etc etc ;)

I have never had an R171 later than 2006 to play with, but other 2007 MB Cars I have driven have never done that, Mel's C Class doesn't do that, various Customers MB Cars of that era don't do it ................

So I am definitely Mystibaffleconfuddled, I've never come across it, but contrary to popular folk lore I don't know everything and I usually learn something new every day, MB Cars never cease to amaze me with all their little ditties :wink:

Perhaps this particular Car has a newer posh version of the old "Lingautronic" system on it's options ??

Cheers Dave
 

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Premium Member 2007 SLK55 AMG
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256 Posts
So I am definitely Mystibaffleconfuddled, I've never come across it, but contrary to popular folk lore I don't know everything and I usually learn something new every day, MB Cars never cease to amaze me with all their little ditties :wink:

Perhaps this particular Car has a newer posh version of the old "Lingautronic" system on it's options ??

Cheers Dave[/QUOTE]




Mystibaff…...What? That word is simply to expensive for my vocabulary:grin:


I'll also point out (as someone did for me) that I posted my 171 information in a 170 thread.


I can confirm that it works just like the manual says.
 

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Registered 2001 SLK320
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889 Posts
Throwing, possibly, a spanner in the works, @Alex3 @M4rCu5 my 1997 230K does have "tipp"/touch start.

One of my rules as I go through retired life is that I must learn one thing each and every day before I can have a nap, have an adult beverage or go to bed.
Well today I made it again.
My car DOES have this Tap Start feature with the old bladed key! Who knew.
Several tests indicated that it did crank after I released the key. The better news is that the time between release and start is pretty darn small.
So thank guys! Off to bed now with a few single malts less in the bottle!!!0:)
 

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Registered 2002 R170 SLK V8 5.0
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2,895 Posts
Hi @Alex 3 ,

12 Year Old "Highland Park" I hope :wink:

If you haven't tried it get a bottle ;)

Cheers Dave
 
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