[TomH]

Read a bit about it but nothing on how and where is the OBDII installed?

Bottom of the dash on the drivers side. There's a small plastic cover over it.

 

[Sneaky Pete]

I'm another that falls in this engine range and I had my engine oil changed as a part of a "B" service back in May/June this year and he didn't mention any swarf when draining. I also had the CEL light come on not long after I bought it back in early April this year (P0015 'B' camshaft position - timing over retarded bank 1). As I believe they swopped the sensor from bank 1 to bank 2 to determine if it was a dodgy sensor or the actual camshaft was at fault. Not had the CEL light on since and I've had my mini OBDII in and it didn't throw up any codes.....

Cheers

Joe

I have that too every now and then, and my engine does not fall in the effected range. I believe it is not the sensor that failes but the solenoid or magnet that actuates the mechanism that advances or retards the camshaft timing. As you can read in the DTB it has been replaced with an improved version. For now I can live with a solenoid that incidentally failes once every few months. If I get fed up with I'll have them all 4 replaced, they are relatevely cheap, I believe som $ 20 a piece. I never noticed anything in the performance of the engine when the CEL comes on, so I guess it is the exhaust camshaft, the retarding in timing there is only for emission reasons, again I can live with an engine that once in a while pours out some gas that does not fully comply with emission standards.
I sometimes do the same after a copious dinner...............>

 

[robreynolds]

2006 C230 with 72,000KM

My Check Engine Light came on at the start of December, MB dealership only got me into the shop on Dec 22nd (must be a lot of broken cars...)

The engine feels like it runs fine, but has the P0016 and P0017 errors and MB said the sprocket is worn.

I'm driving 600Km round trip for Xmas, what are my chances of making it? What are the symptoms that the sprocket totally fails? just vibration from the unbalanced engine? How bad are the vibrations going to be? Like a little bit annoying, or shake the car to pieces?

 

[jbanks15]

rob, did u check your engine number with the affected range of engines in the sticky?

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[efair]

My sprocket had no teeth whatsoever and I could feel no vibration or performance degradation. The CEL was the only symptom.

You'll probably be OK but I would take an alternate vehicle if I had one.

 

[touringsteve]

Anyone run into this on a 2005 SLK 350 76K KMs on the clock? The engine number does fall in the balance shaft problem range on the stickie above. The car is in Australia.

Car runs great except I'm getting an indication on CEL reading error code P000B and P000D with a description of CONTINUOUS CAMSHAFT ADJUSTMENT (RIGHT): INCORRECT POSITION OF THE EXHAUST CAMSHAFT P000B and the same for the LEFT with fault code P000D.

Also... no fault code indicated but description reading ANGULAR DEVIATION OF INTAKE CAMSHAFT ON RIGHT CYLINDER BANK WITH RESPECT TO CRANKSHAFT and the same on the EXHAUST but neither have any fault codes.

Replaced all 4 camshaft magnets but the fault code returned! Again car runs well!

Here's were it gets even more interesting. ... the CEL warning light us intermittent! About 50/50 on or off!

 

[efair]

Merry Xmas touringsteve,
Anything related to camshaft position could be due to sprocket failure. However those aren't the same codes I saw when mine failed. The intermittent light is typical though. I would do the visual inspection ASAP.

 

[touringsteve]

Thx Efair all the holiday best to you too. Is there a link or description floating around on how to do the visual and what to look for?

 

[jbanks15]

in this thread earlier:

http://www.slkworld.com/1138449-post9.html

and your datacard is posted 4 u

 

[efair]

Direct link:

Summarized, take the camshaft sensors out, set the crankshaft to a known angle, look through the holes for the circular marks which should be centered in the holes if all is well.

 

[robreynolds]

Maybe this is a dumb question, I don't know much about engines.

What happens if I don't fix the balance shaft?

From what I've read, if the sprocket wears totally and the shaft no longer spins the engine will vibrate a bit more, particularly at idle. How bad is the vibration going to be? Slightly noticeable or undrivable?

I've also seen several engines (mitsubishi, ecotech, some buick engines) that tuners seem to remove the balance shaft/s intentionally to boost performance.

So is my worst case scenario a bit more vibration and a tiny bit more horsepower? Or am I missing something?

Thanks.

 

[Sneaky Pete]

Yes, you are missing something.

Besides the balance shaft the chain also drives the 4 camshaft in the engine. These camshafts push the intake and exhaust valves down at precisely the right moment. I.e. when the piston goes up to compress the fuel/air mixture, intake and exhaust valves need to be closed. So there is a strict relation between the position of the crankshaft and the camshafts. If the chain that connects all these shafts would skip across a few teeth than for instance the piston could go up while the camshaft pushes the intake valve down.

You could imagine that could cause some serious damage In order to prevent this there are chain tensioners that automatically keep the chain at the correct tension so it can not skip across the sprockets. However the adjustment range of these tensioners is limited. If one or more sprockets wear out to much the tensioners reach the end of their adjustment limits and the chain could skip a few teeth with disastrously results. So the worst case scenario could be a totally blown up engine.

Hope this clarifies things.

 

[efair]

You would be the first I've heard of... Please post your results. Keep your oil filter clean and watch for low oil pressure warnings. File under "interesting failure modes"???

I don't recommend ignoring it BTW.

 

[Sneaky Pete]

Well, my engine nr does not fall in the affected range, even far from, so I am not anticipating problems in this area.

The question from robreynolds was if he just could ignore the whole problem with as worst case result a bit more vibration and a bit more horsepower. Like you said, I don't think that would be wise.

The scenario pictured in my answer might be a little hypothetical but certainly not impossible.
Bottom line, ignore all the warnings and severe engine damage could be the result. That was the message I was trying to put through.

 

[DSSG]

The Mercedes V6 & V8 engines design are an interference type. That means if the camshafts get too far out of sync with the crankshaft, the valves will kiss the pistons and likely destroy the engine. Well it will cause enough damage too expensive to fix!

If you have any fault codes suggesting a balance shaft sprocket problem, then hang up the keys. The car is no longer drivable. Your only hope is Mercedes will spring for part of the cost of repairs. From what I've read, Mercedes will if the problem is a sprocket with worn or damaged teeth.

There is a problem though. Mercedes estimates about 1% of the cars made between 2004 and 2006 have this problem. It is now 2015, or the last of the bad cars were made 9 years ago. Could you be so unlucky to have one? Well yes since there are many SLKs that didn't rack up a lot mileage due to being fair weather cars. You might pick one up at a very good price with low miles. The rub is Mercedes wants to forget about the problem and may be reluctant to help out on the cost of repairs.

If you do buy one, you should check the engine number. Even if it is in the range, you might use this as a bargaining tool on the price. If I found a car in really great condition and a fine price that I liked, I'd take the risk. The risk is a $4k repair which isn't such a big deal.

 

[jbanks15]

I updated post 1 with more info for newbies:

Balance Shaft Gear Issues

M272 engines that were sold between 2004 and 2008 with engine serial numbers below 2729..30 468993 often show early wear of the balance shaft gears, requiring extensive repairs at a retail cost of over $4000. These complaints led to a class action lawsuit against Mercedes Benz (Greg Suddreth and Paul Dunton v. Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC), which alleged the M272 engines are equipped with defective balance shafts gears which "wear out prematurely, excessively and without warning, purportedly causing the vehicles to malfunction, the check engine light to illuminate and the vehicle to misfire and/or stop driving." The suit further alleged that Mercedes knew of this problem, sending out repair bulletins on how to address this issue and ultimately changing the balance shaft gears to avoid this problem. This suit was ultimately dismissed with the judge agreeing with Mercedes that because the gears fail at 60 -80K miles and outside of the warranty period, Mercedes is not legally responsible for these problems. A second class action lawsuit is being organized. [7]

7. "Mercedes Benz named in class action over safety issues related to its M272 or M273 engines". Retrieved Mar 12, 2013.

Mercedes Benz named in class action over safety issues related to its M272 or M273 engines | Got a Class Action?

 

[DSSG]

If the balance shaft sprocket loses its teeth, the timing chain will have added slack. The extra slack will have to be taken up by the timing chain tensioner. If it can't, the chain will slip a tooth or more. The real horror is if the chain can slip one tooth it can slip another and another and.....!

Now damage to the engine may or may not occur. If enough teeth are slipped, the engine won't start. The question is where is the point the engine won't start or the pistons kiss the valves?

The failure of the class action suit is interesting in that it says even though Mercedes acknowledged a defect in manufacturing, it isn't covered outside of the warranty period. This would also apply to the seat heaters and cup holders! LOL

 

[LukeM]

"Mercedes Benz named in class action over safety issues related to its M272 or M273 engines". Retrieved Mar 12, 2013.

Mercedes Benz named in class action over safety issues related to its M272 or M273 engines | Got a Class Action?

The above link lends credence to the statement by others that "this problem is most often seen on the 2006 & 2007 model years". imho

 

[marktrue]

If the balance shaft sprocket loses its teeth, the timing chain will have added slack. The extra slack will have to be taken up by the timing chain tensioner. If it can't, the chain will slip a tooth or more. The real horror is if the chain can slip one tooth it can slip another and another and.....!

Now damage to the engine may or may not occur. If enough teeth are slipped, the engine won't start. The question is where is the point the engine won't start or the pistons kiss the valves?

The failure of the class action suit is interesting in that it says even though Mercedes acknowledged a defect in manufacturing, it isn't covered outside of the warranty period. This would also apply to the seat heaters and cup holders! LOL

If all the teeth wear completely down, the effect is the gear becomes an idle sprocket. The cams don't become enough out of time to cause valve/piston interference, however valve timing becomes out of tolerance, setting the codes. The danger to not doing the repair would be accelerated timing chain wear, which could eventually fail, and engine vibration from lack of balance shaft function. Some engines are interference, some are not. I'm not sure about the M272 being an interference engine.

 

[SpeedyW]

The Seifi et al v. Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC case is still ongoing.

See Link

Looks like 03/02/2015 is the next hearing.

Mercedes Buyers Seek Liability Ruling In Engine Defect Suit
By Lisa Ryan
Law360, New York (November 26, 2014, 2:54 PM ET) -- A California federal court was urged to find Mercedes-Benz USA liable for making and selling defective engines in certain vehicles, with a putative class arguing the automaker knew of the defect and chose to not disclose it to consumers, in violation of state consumer protection and unfair competition laws.

Lead plaintiffs Majeed Seifi and Tracey Deakin on Monday filed a motion for partial summary judgment of liability in the suit alleging Mercedes’ V-6 M272 and V-8 M273 engines contain defective parts that cause the engines to fail. The plaintiffs said the court previously tossed warranty claims in the suit, but evidence shows the automaker knew of the issue.
“Plaintiffs now move for partial summary judgment as to liability or, in the alternative, summary adjudication because the undisputed evidence — often found in MBUSA’s own documents — establishes the existence of a defect, MBUSA’s knowledge of it, and MBUSA’s nondisclosure of the defect,” the motion said.

The plaintiffs sued Mercedes in October 2012, claiming its V-6 M272 engines, installed in many models including the C230, contain defective gears in their balance shafts that wear out prematurely, excessively and without warning. The V-8 M273 engines, installed in models including the E500, have defective idle gears that have similar issues, the complaint said.
The suit claims the vehicles can malfunction, misfire or stop running because of the problems. According to the amended complaint, this poses a significant safety risk for drivers.

“They render the subject vehicles nondrivable without prior warning while the vehicles are on roadways and often times surrounded by heavy traffic,” the amended complaint said. “The only recourse is to have the balance shaft or idle gear replaced, which is a large-scale repair job, taking numerous days and thousands of dollars,” the initial complaint said.

Mercedes in October 2013 urged the court to toss the suit, arguing the plaintiffs are wrongly bringing claims on cars they did not purchase. The automaker said the plaintiffs had only purchased cars with one of the two engine models named in their amended complaint.
That November, the court tossed claims for breach of express warranty and breach of the Song-Beverly implied warranty of merchantability, according to Monday’s motion. But the judge let stand claims for violations of California’s Consumer Legal Remedies Act and Unfair Competition Law.

“Entering partial summary judgment as to liability now, or alternatively summary adjudication as to those elements of plaintiffs’ claims that are not subject to dispute, would leave only the remedies phase to be adjudicated on behalf of plaintiffs and the class members,” the motion said.

Representatives for the parties didn't respond to Wednesday requests for comment.
The plaintiffs are represented by Roy A. Katriel of the Katriel Law Firm and Gary S. Graifman of Kantrowitz Goldhamer & Graifman PC. Mercedes is represented by Troy Masami Yoshino, Chad Allen Stegeman and Johnny J. Yeh of Carroll Burdick & McDonough LLP.
The case is Majeed Seifi et al. v. Mercedes Benz USA LLC, case number 3:12-cv-05493, in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California.

--Additional reporting by Beth Winegarner. Editing by Mark Lebetkin.