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SLK R170 General Discussion SLK 200, SLK 230K, SLK 320, SLK32 AMG

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#21 Old 5 Days Ago
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It all depends on the part as some are better.
My old Honda CR-V developed an air con problem main dealers wanted £4000🙈
After a local travelling air con guy came to the house he explained it was a renowned fault and called the Black Death.
No worries I can get you an oem part and labour all in £500. Bish bash bosh all sorted.
Now I get the main dealers are expensive and not very good locally but this was highway robbery.
Before I agreed to either I did my research and everything the air con guy said was true now he wants to make a living but not fleece you and not give there shareholders all your money.
For me itís more where you buy from give me a local garage/Indy you have a relationship with as they will tell you the truth.
But at the end of the day you pay your money take and take the chance and hope it works out
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#22 Old 5 Days Ago
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/\ /\ /\

Now that I do agree with

Main Stealers they are called by those of us who know !!

I have a good relationship with all my Customers, and since starting this business I have NEVER Advertised, always booked 2 weeks in advance, and it is getting busier and busier, all word of mouth recommendation

Cheers Dave
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Back to topic - anyone else not falling for the whole "MAF corrupted the ECU" story?

Perhaps someone with more electronic knowledge will set me straight, but an ECU does not "store" or "memorize" MAF values, so how can the MAF corrupt anything, unless it shorted out?

Perhaps it's possible that a chip or something inside the ECU is "fried" and that's what he's talking about, but a reset of the ECU will not fix that.
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^^^ One thing that being on such an active forum and not being an expert has taught me.

Research.

Obviously, our own forum is a starting point, but good MB biased forums can help too.
A useful thing is to know engine/chassis type (Wiki for a quick check) and seeing what else is based on the same.

When the problem does not appear to be documented I come to the following:

Being told a box of lies.
Answer was dumbed down.
And the worst being, it is a rare issue.

To my mind @Turdo2 post sounds the most likely answer thus far.
But why not say fried.

Be interesting to hear @savcom on this.
His electronics knowledge on the 170 is quite deep.
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#25 Old 4 Days Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turdo2 View Post
Back to topic - anyone else not falling for the whole "MAF corrupted the ECU" story?

Perhaps someone with more electronic knowledge will set me straight, but an ECU does not "store" or "memorize" MAF values, so how can the MAF corrupt anything, unless it shorted out?

Perhaps it's possible that a chip or something inside the ECU is "fried" and that's what he's talking about, but a reset of the ECU will not fix that.
Hi Aaron @Turdo2 ,

I couldn't agree more with you, thing is this, short out any 5 Volt Sensor Circuit Wires and all that happens is the ECU Flags an Open / Short Circuit Code, nothing goes bang or gets fried

Only other thing that may have happened is ECU has jacked up Fuelling and / or Ignition Adaptives to a max trying to compensate for sh!t Data provided by the Chinesium MAF, but all that requires is "Reset Adaptives" with SDS to sort it out ...............

Not a "Hobgoblin Rebootstrapamabob" or whatever the "Technician" called it a way back in the Thread

Sounds to me like a dumb assed way of up selling a simple job

"If you can't blind 'em with brilliance baffle 'em with Bullsh!t" springs to mind

Hey Ho, that's why I have been looking in waiting for an update

HTH, Cheers Dave
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#26 Old 4 Days Ago
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Originally Posted by Turdo2 View Post
Back to topic - anyone else not falling for the whole "MAF corrupted the ECU" story?

Perhaps someone with more electronic knowledge will set me straight, but an ECU does not "store" or "memorize" MAF values, so how can the MAF corrupt anything, unless it shorted out?

Perhaps it's possible that a chip or something inside the ECU is "fried" and that's what he's talking about, but a reset of the ECU will not fix that.
@Turdo2

You comments are very interesting indeed. But who does one then trust with mechanic saying one thing and another one something totally different. It's very easy for those who are technically inclined and have experience dealing with all this stuff. Even if one does "research" as repeatedly suggested, how does one ascertain information one is getting actually applies to the problem one is trying to sort out? One problem can have so many varying symptoms which are also very similar to various other problems that occur with a car.

If one goes to Mercedes they'll charge tons of money for "diagnosis" before even offering a solution. And when they do, they want an arm and a leg. Sometimes even after all this, problem is not fixed. Often times it just ticking off one item after another on a trial and error list till problem stops. By then you'd probably have spent enough money to just get a new car. So when a local Indy gives you better figures and a good result, who are you then inclined to believe going forward? It's easier to get around some of this if you are technical and have the know how. The rest of us have to find some way to get our fixes in lieu of knowledge and technical skills we don't have.

Keeping and running a car these days is now like navigating a minefield. In the old days, you had a problem and local mechanic fixed it. You go away with peace of mind. These days, it seems main dealers and mechanics are a gamble one way or another. One should not have to go get a degree in electrical and mechanical engineering to get good and honest service or keep car running
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Very few time served mechanics in dealer workshops these days.............
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Bottom line you got the car fixed and that's wonderful!.. A lot of the time we dont even see the resolution.

However In this instance, what the mechanic described to you seems highly unlikely - which tells me the mechanic fixed something different than what he described... again, it could just be a translation error or a misunderstanding. I'd be curious to see a receipt for specifically what was done.

Did you have a reason to mistrust him before we spoke up? NO... should you now? PROBABLY NOT... But if we found out he fixed something different, then we are not helping people fix cars with the same symptoms with any degree of accuracy and then people start going to their mechanics asking to have it bootstrapped! I know if someone brought a car to me asking me to do that, I would give them a very strange look, and then start looking at the actual symptoms.
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Likely what happened is that the parameters in the ECU were not reset for the new MAF. In most german ECU's they have a max and lower limit that is set when the part is replaced. If that was not done then your normal low limit could be .21v and the low limit for the old one was .23v so you would throw a code ever time since the new MAF goes lower than the value stored in the ECU as the low limit. A MAF cannot damage the ECU as the most power it can feed back is the power that comes from the ECU, in this case 5v. Likely all they did was reset the values in the ECU which takes all of 5 minutes.
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#30 Old 4 Days Ago
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Hi,

Posts # 26 to # 29 covers it all perfectly

@Turdo2 said "I would give them a very strange look, and then start looking at the actual symptoms."

That happens at least once a week in my Workshop

Cheers Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2302 View Post
Hi,

Posts # 26 to # 29 covers it all perfectly

@Turdo2 said "I would give them a very strange look, and then start looking at the actual symptoms."

That happens at least once a week in my Workshop

Cheers Dave
That happens every time I walk in the shop.
Two sugars in my coffee. Two. Not one.

A very wise manager once said to me that if you cannot explain a problem to someone
who does not work in that field, then you do not know the subject well enough.

Anyway, still waiting on some local knowledge for OP.
I've heard nothing back.

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Bootstrapping:

https://www.techopedia.com/definition/3328/bootstrap

So, presumably, the ecu was completely wiped and then re-written from scratch. No wonder it was risky!
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For me it's also about the convenience. I have loads of local auto part providers, and Mercedes aren't that close by. If Mercedes sold parts via their website for a decent price, I'd probably use them a lot more. Sometimes individual dealerships turn up on eBay selling genuine parts, which can be a cheap and convenient route.


It's quite well known that the R170 is picky with MAFs, and the cheap ones don't work well. So best stick with Bosch for those.


Never heard of a faulty MAF rewriting the ECU. I thought they were very much "read only" on R170s anyway!
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I agree with @Turdo2 and @Dave2302. I find it very surprising that a sensor (which is what a MAF is) could upset the ECU just like that. It's possible that the ECU may have some funny values recorded from the failed MAF, but that should not mean that the ECU has failed or that it needed a re-flash.



As to the 'bootstrap' procedure - that's an odd term to use. From my background of computing, a 'bootstrap' was a small piece of code used on older (like 20-50 year old) computers that was used to start it up - it kind of sets everything up so the main operating system can load. Over time (and as complexity increased) this became the BIOS that is used on modern computers, or various loaders (for example NTLDR for Windows NT or GRUB for Linux).


It's possible that the mechanic re-flashed the original code into the ECU (and called this 'bootstrapping') to start it from scratch, as others have said, but a straight forward disconnect and reconnect of the battery for 30 minutes should do the same thing - and at least should have been tried after changing the MAF before thinking about re-flashing.


ECUs from this era have two types of memory. One type is for code and one type is for tracking what's going on as the car starts and runs. The code is stored in an EPROM - an Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory) and the beauty of this is that, as far as the ECU is concerned, the code is read-only - i.e it cannot be written to (and therefore changed) by the ECU. The other part, where the tracking info is kept, is called RAM and is meant to be written to by the ECU. I amy be wrong, but I would have thought that if there were any issues with values that were out of range (like a non-working MAF ), then disconnecting the battery for 30 minutes while changing the MAF would usually clear the ECU ready to be used again.
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#35 Old 3 Days Ago
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Hi @savcom ,

/\ /\ /\ Spot on, especially the Bootstrap stuff ...............

Almost right in the last paragraph, certainly not wrong, but let me expand that a little bittie ....................

I don't know what ECU is on the 4 Cylinder Cars early ones are ME 2.0, different animal to what I'm playing with right now ...................

I am now very intimate with ME 2.8 ............. 3.2 V6 ECU, V8 ECU plus lot of other MB Engines after around 2001 (model dependent).

With a Programmer, (not SDS), but the likes of KTAG etc plus a Hex Editor program, I can read and modify Info from 3 Chips .............

1) EEPROM

2) Micro ST

3) Flash

EEPROM contains Immobiliser and VIN Details, and has an effect on Version Coding, if not holds all of it

Micro ST contains ECU adaptives, and if you try to clone that chip by re writing it, most of the Hex will revert to FF, in other words it will revert to base line and then re populate with figures after driving for a few drive cycles

Flash contains the Engine Mapping and also determines the like of which Injectors and Coils fire off of which ECU Connector Pin, except for the 2 "Timing" Cylinders, (which will always be number 1 and its TDC sibling), so 4 on a V6 and 5 on a V8, this is how I get the V6 to start up on 2 cylinders using V8 Flash File etc etc

That's about the limit of my hours and hours of hacking and testing etc etc right now, but every time I play with that kit and a whole load of EBay ECU Fodder I learn something new

I can now clone any ME 2.8 Immobiliser for example, so if your ECU dies I can clone a good used ECU to start and run your Car, report correct VIN number etc etc.
If your ECU cannot be read, I can virginise a good used one and then using SDS you can do an "Initial Start Up" procedure to Marry it to your Cars Immobiliser etc etc.

My Rework Station and Eepromming Bench that I built up and some of the Kit I use ...............



HTH, Cheers Dave
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#36 Old 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Turdo2 View Post
Bottom line you got the car fixed and that's wonderful!.. A lot of the time we dont even see the resolution.

However In this instance, what the mechanic described to you seems highly unlikely - which tells me the mechanic fixed something different than what he described... again, it could just be a translation error or a misunderstanding. I'd be curious to see a receipt for specifically what was done.

Did you have a reason to mistrust him before we spoke up? NO... should you now? PROBABLY NOT... But if we found out he fixed something different, then we are not helping people fix cars with the same symptoms with any degree of accuracy and then people start going to their mechanics asking to have it bootstrapped! I know if someone brought a car to me asking me to do that, I would give them a very strange look, and then start looking at the actual symptoms.
Well I didnít go asking mechanic to do a bootstrap. I donít even know what that means. The mechanic suggested that after replacing MAF and car was running rough. Iím no mechanic so if he said thatís what he needed to so, then Iíve not choice but take his word. And my car is running very well now, so as far as am concerned my problem is fixed. Thatís the bottom line. I was merely sharing what happened to me, not professing to have any technical knowledge or skills.
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