R170 will not turn over - Mercedes Benz SLK Forum

SLK R170 General Discussion SLK 200, SLK 230K, SLK 320, SLK32 AMG

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#1 Old 2 Weeks Ago
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R170 will not turn over

Greetings,


SLK230
2003
Automatic


Performed search on site, find snippets of similar problems but nothing matches all.



First, I want to state that it ran, and ran fine. Then, I left it unattended in my garage (Michigan) all winter. Like a dummy, I found the battery dead, so I charged it (on vehicle) for about an hour, got impatient, and tried to start the car using the 'start' function of the charger. Bad idea. Heard a pop, lost all instrumentation, etc.. found CCM fried. Replaced CCM. Put in new battery. Car does the following:


1. All alarm lights come on when key taken to 'run', including big triangle with '!' in the center between turn signal indicators.

2. Airbag light goes out after about 5 seconds.
3. When key taken to 'start', the starter motor does not engage the flywheel, nor does it run. There is a sound from what appears to be the fuel/air system area (just to the left of the supercharger area. This noise sounds like a motor or fan running. The sound will continue for about 5 seconds after I let go of the key, then it stops.


What I've done so far:



1. Connected Zurich ZR11 and:
a. Found no failure codes under Global OBD2.
b. C1140-128 Stored/Current/MIL "N49 (Steering Angle Sensor) Steering Angle Sensor Is Not Initialized". I believe this is due to loss of memory due to battery dying. Read about running steering wheel from stop to stop to make this go away. Found test later, will discuss later.
c. Found no failure codes under Mercedes-Benz OEM Enhanced.
d. Tried erasing ABS DTC's. Same message C1140-128 reappears.
e. Put ZR11 away.
2. Took out Xentry/DAS laptop and equipment and connected to OBD2. Ran quick test.
a. Got a big 'F' on ESP. Dove into that. Test told me to run steering wheel left/right, saw that sensor was tracking position of front wheels. The error has not returned on subsequent quick tests.
b. Got a small 'f' on PSE. Here is where my knowledge dies out. When I try to run a test on PSE, the Xentry/DAS opens something called 'HHT-WIN", through some default, and initalizes multiplexer with data. It eventually gives me a selection for model. I choose '04 170' as it makes the most sense. Then it says 'Incorrect Vehicle Adapter Cable!'... so it seems I can't go any further. Truthfully, it doesn't matter what one I select, it gives the same error about cable being wrong.
c. To save reading, I get the same cable error for the following modules, which all have a small 'f':
ATA
TAC


One thing about the ATA, I get an error message "B1709 Component H3 (Alarm Signal Horn) is not fitted or is incorrectly coded or faulty." I can't reset or test this since, when I do, it runs this 'HHT-WIN' that I apparently don't have the cable for.


Another thing - the error codes (both on the PSE and ATA) are exactly the same. The TAC (Automatic temperature control) are not, they are:
B1453 Fresh air and recirculated air flap Y11/3 (Valve block, 8 valves)

B1417 A31y1 (left dual valve)

B1416 A31m1 (Coolant circulation pump)

B1231 B11/4 (Coolant temperature sensor)

B1422 Serial interface K1 from instrument cluster to operating unit

B1418 A31y2 (right dual valve)


There is one more little 'f' code. It is associated with the ICM and reads:
B1039 FAult in CAN communication with control unit Transmission control


With key in 'run', I have everything I can think of available - blinkers/flashers work, brake lights work, reverse lamps work, headlights work, highbeam/ lowbeam works, mirrors move, glovebox light works, I can switch on 'AC', 'recirc' and defroster. Windows work, horn works, and I am even able to lock/unlock the car and have tested the alarm circuit succesfully - it alarms when the trunk is opened, or either door. I can reset the alarm with the FOB or by key. I am too chicken to try the roof, as I don't want to open a can of worms in case the thing gets stuck, but I can say it worked last fall before dead battery.


A weird thing - when I pull up the ETC module in Xentry/DAS and go to the information on it, the VIN reads all zeros. I have tried manually entering and F5 (confirm) and going back out, and back in only to find it back at all zeros. I have tried synchronizing (F7) and F5 to confirm but it ends up being all zeros again. However, with that said, the ETC module passes the quick test...


Bottom line is, I can't start the dang thing. All indications (in my opinion) look like the vehicle should start. I'm wondering if the alarm module has the battery of death problem, but does that just inhibit the firing of the engine and not turnover? It seems like everything is working but no starter to flywheel...


I have checked all fuses that I can find (one box under hood, one next to driver's door). Originally, after jumping, found 35 and 9 blown. Replaced and fuses are holding.


Also, the vacuum unit seems to run for about 20 seconds on startup too. Not sure if that is a problem or not because car always started and I couldn't hear it. Also, The module seems to unlock and lock doors fine.



HELP!


Knumbknuts







I connected DAS and ran quick test and got the following errors
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#2 Old 2 Weeks Ago
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3. When key taken to 'start', the starter motor does not engage the flywheel, nor does it run. There is a sound from what appears to be the fuel/air system area (just to the left of the supercharger area. This noise sounds like a motor or fan running. The sound will continue for about 5 seconds after I let go of the key, then it stops.


Check under the bonnet and see if that noise is the engine cooling fan. Engine failing to crank and cooling fan running full speed is a classic sign of a faulty K40 relay. It's a common problem and there is a sticky on the main R170 page. If you want to read some threads somewhat shorter, search for it:


https://www.slkworld.com/new-members...searching.html


Faulty K40 relay doesn't bring up fault codes. They might be old ones. Check out your K40, reset all codes and see which ones come back.
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#3 Old 2 Weeks Ago
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So, before laptop-based STAR/SDS, MB factory mechanics used a "Hand Held Tester" (HHT) for diagnosis. A mux was still required AFAIK. When STAR/SDS arrived with Microsoft Windows in tow, MB decided to copy the functionality into a Windows program, and that is what "Win-HHT" is. Much R170 diagnosis requires it.

Question: what kind of mux are you using with your SDS?
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#4 Old 2 Weeks Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efair View Post
So, before laptop-based STAR/SDS, MB factory mechanics used a "Hand Held Tester" (HHT) for diagnosis. A mux was still required AFAIK. When STAR/SDS arrived with Microsoft Windows in tow, MB decided to copy the functionality into a Windows program, and that is what "Win-HHT" is. Much R170 diagnosis requires it.

Question: what kind of mux are you using with your SDS?

This is what I bought:


MB Star SD Connect C4 +xentry XDOS 07/19-09-19 + CF19 laptop Mercedes Benz Star


from ebay.


Hope this helps. I am off to pull the module that contains K40 and check the relays.


Appreciate your help!


KK
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Hi,

ATA Alarm and Immobiliser are totally separate, a bad ATA will not cause a non start / non cranking

The reason for no Crank is this Com Error from TCU, there is a microswitch inhibitor in the Trans Conductor plate, it's position has to agree with the shifter position, I suspect your ME ECU is not seeing Start Enable message.

Why you have no comms is a lot more involved, but as said, start with K40, have you blown a fuse somewhere causing a Reference or a Supply Voltage to be failed ?

C4 Mux should work fine with HHT Win, are you using the 16 pin DLC Lead, or is your Car one with a 38 pin Round Socket, some Cars have both, if that's the case try using the other Socket on the Car with the alternative Mux to Car Lead

Oh, and never use a Booster on any Car with Electronics

HTH, Cheers Dave
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#6 Old 2 Weeks Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Australian View Post
3. When key taken to 'start', the starter motor does not engage the flywheel, nor does it run. There is a sound from what appears to be the fuel/air system area (just to the left of the supercharger area. This noise sounds like a motor or fan running. The sound will continue for about 5 seconds after I let go of the key, then it stops.


Check under the bonnet and see if that noise is the engine cooling fan. Engine failing to crank and cooling fan running full speed is a classic sign of a faulty K40 relay. It's a common problem and there is a sticky on the main R170 page. If you want to read some threads somewhat shorter, search for it:


https://www.slkworld.com/new-members...searching.html


Faulty K40 relay doesn't bring up fault codes. They might be old ones. Check out your K40, reset all codes and see which ones come back.

Good morning!


So far... I pulled the Module containing the relays and fuses in the box next to the battery. I have an amazing magnifying glass and some moderate soldering skills. Found several questionable solder joints and have re-soldered them. I still cannot get the car to turn over.


The running sound is definitely not the cooling fan. To best explain it, there is what sounds like a motor spinning up when the key is taken to start. If I release the key (pretending the motor did start), the spinning sound continues for about 2-3 seconds after key release. If I hold the key in start, this sound continues as long as I have the key in start, and then when released, it stops after 2-3 seconds. I removed the air cleaner to supercharger tube and can see a flap (best guess is it flips open when the s/c is engaged for more airflow) and the sound is definitely louder with this tube off.


My curiosity is this - are any of the malfunction lights supposed to go out before vehicle start? When I put the key in and take it to the first position, everything (malfunction) lights up, and then after about 3 seconds, the SRS light goes out. everything else stays illuminated, including the master triangle between the turn signal indicators.


I will continue to answer to the relevant questions to keep these threads aligned...


Is there a 'sequence of events' flowchart in any of the software? I have just about everything with that respect... Perhaps if I knew what signals are permissives, I can check to see if they are there.


Thanks for your suggestions, and please, keep em coming!


KK
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Only lights I remember staying on after start is ABS and maybe engine (not sure about engine) and then only for <2 seconds


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2302 View Post
Hi,

ATA Alarm and Immobiliser are totally separate, a bad ATA will not cause a non start / non cranking

The reason for no Crank is this Com Error from TCU, there is a microswitch inhibitor in the Trans Conductor plate, it's position has to agree with the shifter position, I suspect your ME ECU is not seeing Start Enable message.

Why you have no comms is a lot more involved, but as said, start with K40, have you blown a fuse somewhere causing a Reference or a Supply Voltage to be failed ?

C4 Mux should work fine with HHT Win, are you using the 16 pin DLC Lead, or is your Car one with a 38 pin Round Socket, some Cars have both, if that's the case try using the other Socket on the Car with the alternative Mux to Car Lead

Oh, and never use a Booster on any Car with Electronics

HTH, Cheers Dave

Good morning!


Yes, after this fiasco, I plan on push starting any vehicle by myself, uphill, in the sleet, on a dirt road, in my underwear before even thinking about using jumper cables...


Let's go after the C4 Mux... I have the OBD2 connector cable between the car and the MUX. The OBD2 connector is under the dash by the pull lever for the hood. I have NOT checked the pins on that connection just yet, mostly because I just now thought about it and will do it when I get home. I have seen photos of the vehicles that have the 38 pin connector and those photos lead me to believe that the 38 pin connector is next to, or inside the box that contains the control modules under the hood next to the battery. I can safely say that this car does not have the 38 pin connector, unless it is located somewhere else and I haven't found it yet. When I purchased the equipment off ebay, it came with several extra cables, but after looking on the net, those cables are for other vehicles. The only one that seems to fit on any connection I have found is the one for the OBD2 under the dash. My question is, do I need to launch some other software to 'marry' the HHT-WIN and the car? I'm seeing what looks like the data being loaded into the MUX upon initialization of the HHT-WIN program, but it fails to connect to the car. Perhaps there is a communication error on the vehicle bus... I dunno...


I have searched extensively for fuse panels and have only found 3. One is the big one in front of the brake vacuum booster. Those fuses are intact. The second one I found was on the drivers side dash under a panel that you can't access unless you have the drivers door open. Those fuses are intact. The third one is on the K40 module and those fuses, too, are intact. Am I missing a panel somewhere? Please say yes.


About the gear position collaboration... (that sounds like a title for a Big Bang episode)... I ran a test (don't ask me which one) but it showed the tester sensing the vehicle in P and it physically was in Park. but, to your second point... During some DAS test on the ETC, I did find two codes that just might shed some light. Before I put them here, I am sure I have the information somewhere, but I am overwhelmed on how to use this whole DAS/EPC/WIS etc. software... I know enough to be dangerous. The codes on the screen look like what you discussed about start inhibit... they are:


Vehicle: 170.449
Control Unit: ETC
016 - Y3/6s1 (Starter lockout contact) - OPEN
050 - Selected gear by means of selector lever (CAN) - P


I was hoping to find a way to find out how to test the communication bus (I think that's what they mean by CAN). I am also hoping for a short list of power checks so I can put to bed the 'is there power to the item' nightmare I keep having.


Do you suppose the HHT-WIN lack of workie workie is due to faulty communication?


Please advise, and as, always, yes - your input helps!


Regards,


KK
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KK,


I don't think too many of us here have the factory training on SDS or WinHHT - I'm like you - I know just enough to be dangerous. I do know the Facelift R170's omitted the round 38 pin connector in the "apparatus box" under the hood. I never tried to use WinHHT on a Facelift R170 so I can't add any first-hand experience.



On the pre-FL R170's there is a "pre-fuse panel" very near the battery, which contains 4-5 very high-amp fuses that in turn feed all the smaller fuses which you have just checked. It might be a good idea to test those as well (if they are present).
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Originally Posted by efair View Post
KK,


I don't think too many of us here have the factory training on SDS or WinHHT - I'm like you - I know just enough to be dangerous. I do know the Facelift R170's omitted the round 38 pin connector in the "apparatus box" under the hood. I never tried to use WinHHT on a Facelift R170 so I can't add any first-hand experience.



On the pre-FL R170's there is a "pre-fuse panel" very near the battery, which contains 4-5 very high-amp fuses that in turn feed all the smaller fuses which you have just checked. It might be a good idea to test those as well (if they are present).
Hi efair!


First of all, thanks for your input. Perhaps I need to do some more digging. I know about the monster size fuses in the plastic flip box, I forgot to mention that. Those are fine, too. I've validated +12 on the downstream side of all. I was laughing as I checked, because one of them is like a 200 amp fuse and I thought to myself 'if one of these bad boys is blown, this is going to the junkyard'...


I am ignorant of the term 'facelift'. What does that mean? The Bumblebee came off the production line 21/10/02. Is there a cutoff date for this facelift change?


Thank you for your time!


KK
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This is all guesswork/approximation on my part - I believe facelift production commenced February 2000. Facelift is a term for "minor redesign", which in R170 (for the US models at least) included "delete 38-pin connector". The interior changed greatly, the exterior changed slightly.
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