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#1 Old 2 Weeks Ago
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Diagnostic tool?

hello peps.

What i read the r170 -98 is ODB1?
i have a reader that can read ODB2 i belive...

When connected it can read and tell me that there is fault codes.. but i cant see what the codes are..
when trying to read codes it just tells med it cant connect.

Soo i belive the tool cant read odb1.

Its a Icarsoft CR pro.

It says mercedes but maybe not that far back in time.

Soo anyone knows a tool to read odb1 system?

Best regards Thomas.
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#2 Old 2 Weeks Ago
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Hi,

400 C3 based SDS with the 38 pin connector and s/w that includes HHT Win Emulator for things like VR, ATA HVAC etc (ask seller) ............................

Or the "something else machine costing way more lottery", which if you are lucky may read 80% of Codes in some but not all modules. A machine cheaper than 400 will be very hit and miss as to exactly what it will do, as you have found out.

If you are serious about DIY on your Car and doing decent diagnostics to avoid just chucking parts at it, SDS will save you a lot of money and frustration

IMHO SDS will serve you well also retains it's resale value should you move away from MB Cars in the future

HTH, Cheers Dave
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#3 Old 2 Weeks Ago
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Thx.

But i also have a volvo and a nissan.. soo this tool i have is not a total waste of money.. but now i know...

this time i will leave to the lokal mb dealer to check codes.

Thx again for the support.
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Originally Posted by Dave2302 View Post
Hi,



400 C3 based SDS with the 38 pin connector and s/w that includes HHT Win Emulator for things like VR, ATA HVAC etc (ask seller) ............................



Or the "something else machine costing way more lottery", which if you are lucky may read 80% of Codes in some but not all modules. A machine cheaper than 400 will be very hit and miss as to exactly what it will do, as you have found out.



If you are serious about DIY on your Car and doing decent diagnostics to avoid just chucking parts at it, SDS will save you a lot of money and frustration



IMHO SDS will serve you well also retains it's resale value should you move away from MB Cars in the future



HTH, Cheers Dave
Couldn't agree more with the above. As someone who previously used carsoft 7.4 for my 1997 SLK 230 and icarsoft for my 2006 S211 the difference when you have access to SDS is it's just orders of magnitude better.

When my carsoft 7.4 multiplexer died and having read previous posts by Dave I started looking around for an SDS based replacement and was very lucky to pick from EBay a C3 based system with all the very high quality cables and an old IBM T20 laptop for just 170 delivered. It also included WIS. After selling the icarsoft it cost me less than 100.

The jump out benefits for me so far are that it's so much more than just a code reader but a full diagnostic tool. After reading a code there are often additional tests to follow to pin point the issue. I can click straight through into the relevant pages of WIS to understand how the faulty item is supposed to work, where the components are, how to remove and repair/replace etc etc... And a real unexpected plus is that armed with fault code I can sit in my comfy armchair and using the simulation mode explore all this in comfort while planning out my attack to fix it.

No more changing expensive parts whilst keeping my fingers crossed for a me...

Dave, I am now fully converted so thanks for all your posts on this.



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For that money you can get an sd connect c4 will all the cables, plus will do new cars not only old cars.
On alliexpres sd connect c4 is 290 , don't buy any software from there as is only 1-year key ( they will not tell you this ) and 100 full software or 50 xentry/das only, I can install remotely.
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Originally Posted by borris1954 View Post
Couldn't agree more with the above. As someone who previously used carsoft 7.4 for my 1997 SLK 230 and icarsoft for my 2006 S211 the difference when you have access to SDS is it's just orders of magnitude better.

When my carsoft 7.4 multiplexer died and having read previous posts by Dave I started looking around for an SDS based replacement and was very lucky to pick from EBay a C3 based system with all the very high quality cables and an old IBM T20 laptop for just 170 delivered. It also included WIS. After selling the icarsoft it cost me less than 100.

The jump out benefits for me so far are that it's so much more than just a code reader but a full diagnostic tool. After reading a code there are often additional tests to follow to pin point the issue. I can click straight through into the relevant pages of WIS to understand how the faulty item is supposed to work, where the components are, how to remove and repair/replace etc etc... And a real unexpected plus is that armed with fault code I can sit in my comfy armchair and using the simulation mode explore all this in comfort while planning out my attack to fix it.

No more changing expensive parts whilst keeping my fingers crossed for a me...

Dave, I am now fully converted so thanks for all your posts on this.



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Hi,

Thank you for posting your findings, which agree with myself and many others who have "bit the bullet".

I know some guys here get fed up with me constantly extolling SDS Virtues, but until an MB owner has used SDS, and got familiar with it they simply don't realise how good, and how much more than a Code Reader it really is.
Believe me, I sometimes get fed up with trying to explain it

Your post above makes that all worthwhile

I have owned and used SDS for over 6 years now, in a professional capacity and I still keep finding other cool features even these days

Your next step is to select your ATA Module and set its Coding to "Netherlands", then when you lock and unlock with your Fob Key it will chirp to confirm

There is also another "freebie" upgrade which will do a coding to your Wipers so they are road speed sensitive ........................ Edit :- I'm not certain if that works on Pre Facelift Cars

Have fun finding them

Cheers Dave
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Do you have an account with Daimler for scn?

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Originally Posted by i860 View Post
@Dave2302
Do you have an account with Daimler for scn?
Hi, what you have been advise up to now I can not disagree with, they have far more knowledge and experience than I have .......But you could consider the Autel Maxi Diag Elite 802 All Systems in the link below , good bit of kit, I have made a short YouTube video that I have uploaded below, only about 4 min, Might be useful to others if you have already made your mind up.

It also shows live data, If a fault detected it will tell you the fault not just show the fault code.

It has paid for itself already with my car, like I said a good bit of kit.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SALE-Aute...3e700f73c18940

The video below I have just rushed out yo do, so not very professional as I was on my own but it will help you or others to decide whether it is the tool for you


You of course need the correct 38 pin adapter cable. , my advice is buy the 38 pin adapter cable first as they can be hard to come by? as you already know the scanner is no good to you for the R170 without it

HTH
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Hi,

@i860 , no I don't subscribe, I use a different method on the odd occasion I need subscriber services.

@Bartiny ,

I'm almost Certain that particular Autel will not Access ICM, VR, HVAC, ATA etc, can you confirm ?

Working correctly on these Cars requires more than Read Erase and Data on a handful of Modules, Version Coding is essential for many replacements, plus all the other stuff which I have typed reams on in the past.

In a nutshell SDS is the complete MB Suite (Arsenal)

HTH, Cheers Dave
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Hi @Dave2302

I am not disputing that SDS is better, what I was trying to show is that for your average R170 owner then this Autel Is a good buy?

I do not have a clue (pun intended ) what half the things you are asking about even stand for

I can pick out VR as Vario Roof, yes it does scan the Vario roof

Not being funny with you but..... did you watch the (very high budget) You Tube video I posted? it is only 4 mins long it shows the full scan on my car.

Cheers Graham.
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@Bartiny .. I'm not going to dispute the Autel range, the diaglink, the 802, 805, 808 etc. have all had decent shouts from us 170 owners .. just wondering where you got the cable from?
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@Bartiny .. I'm not going to dispute the Autel range, the diaglink, the 802, 805, 808 etc. have all had decent shouts from us 170 owners .. just wondering where you got the cable from?
I purchased my Autel off an official Autel supplier on Ebay I had (pre purchase) contacted he seller by phone and he had the cable in stock, so bought one off him as I knew that if it was from Autel then I was sure it was going to work, I am not saying that other (cheaper) cables would not work but I was erring on the side of caution

HTH
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@Bartiny .. I'm not going to dispute the Autel range, the diaglink, the 802, 805, 808 etc. have all had decent shouts from us 170 owners .. just wondering where you got the cable from?
I have just trolled through my Ebay purchases for 2017 and it was the seller in the link below


https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/autel-man...72.m2749.l2754

Although I have just clicked on the link myself and I can not find any listings from him??

Cheers.
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I purchased my Autel off an official Autel supplier on Ebay I had (pre purchase) contacted he seller by phone and he had the cable in stock, so bought one off him as I knew that if it was from Autel then I was sure it was going to work, I am not saying that other (cheaper) cables would not work but I was erring on the side of caution

HTH
There is a discussion on here somewhere where a couple of members were saying that the cheaper 38pin cables won't access many of the modules and that the genuine Autel cable is a must-have .. unfortunately they seem to be rarer than hen's teeth so you did well to get that
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Originally Posted by Bartiny View Post
Hi @Dave2302

I am not disputing that SDS is better, what I was trying to show is that for your average R170 owner then this Autel Is a good buy?

I do not have a clue (pun intended ) what half the things you are asking about even stand for

I can pick out VR as Vario Roof, yes it does scan the Vario roof

Not being funny with you but..... did you watch the (very high budget) You Tube video I posted? it is only 4 mins long it shows the full scan on my car.

Cheers Graham.
Hi Graham,

Like you, I'm not trying to be awkward and I'm definitely not trying to be confontational or 'P' on anyones parade, I just don't want folk in the future to buy something which like yourself, they believe is accessing "all codes in all areas" when in fact it most definitely is not which you have un knowingly proven in the latter half of your Video

However, that said I agree the Autel is a good wee machine for a beginning DIY at that price range .....................

BUT ..............

Yes, I did watch your Video, and I'm sorry to say it, but that Autel is as I suspected, just like all the others in it's bracket, it is definitely not accessing your VR, nor is it accessing Heating Ventilation Air Con, nor Anti Theft Alarm, nor PSE(Central Lock Pump) nor Immobiliser or Central Control Module ...........................

These are all systems that get problems, and cause guys loads of grief, so yes, access is needed.

What you are seeing when it says VR etc is the machine trying to communicate, but it cannot so instead of it coming back with a pass for no faults or a fail with faults, the heading VR (or any other modules) just disappears off screen, which means the Autel cannot see that Module.

So on your Video the only things it is communicating with are the 5 usual ones that all these type of machines communicate with which is :-

ETC (TCU Transmission)
ME (Engine)
ABS
AB (SRS Airbag Module)
ICM (Instrument Cluster)

In addition, as I have said many times like all non Mfr Machines, these units will only see 80% of the possible fault codes which could be in those 5 modules
This is because, legally, all a vehicle manufacturer has to release is 80% of their software. In the future, due to safety critical Autonomous Systems, that will probably mean that will change and Mfrs will not actually release any of it !!

So, why do I consider this SDS so important and keep banging on about it ? ...............

A member here may have a fault in lets say his VR, and ask for help here, stating "There are no codes present", and therefore you will get a load of wrong answers and guesswork from guys like myself and others here based on what that member has reported

So we guess in a total wrong direction believing there is no code(s), but in real life there are actually fault codes ...................

This guessing results in playing "parts darts", and all of that usually results in a members frustration, a non fixed Car plus a way larger parts bill than for example a 12 micro-switch which we would have got first time had we had a code to go on.

I am also trying to educate guys that the claims made by the sellers of these machines are often exaggerated like all sales blurb.

Sincerely hope this helps someone, and clears up a few mis-conceptions

Cheers Dave
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I like the Autel Diaglink myself for a low cost in depth reader but the US had ODB-II since 1996, Europeans did not get until the facelift so for that you need a specialist system like the SDS.

Have an 38 pin adapter but have no idea if/what it can do.
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Well, Well that is a very comprehensive response Dave Thanks, I must admit I did wonder why the Vario Roof ETC. did not record on he unit, I never gave a thought to the fact that is could not find the modules, I just assumed that all was well.

That being said the unit has paid for itself with the 3 or 4 faults it has pinpointed so I am happy (ish) with it, I just wish that I had paid for the 4 systems one rather than All systems now.

My trouble is that I am great with the oily bits (old school mechanic) but very much a technophobe with anything like this so that is why I chose the Autel as it was plug and play.

Thanks again for clearing up my confusion, and I hope this thread helps others to decide what level of scanner is for them.

Cheers Graham
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Hi Graham, @Bartiny @Padgett , and all others following the thread,

I too was one of the "Old Skool" generation, Carburettors Points and Condensers were a lot easier to fix back then
I first got into Diagnostics many years ago, think Renault 25 and Renault 5 era, then V6 Safranes etc, because these were some of the first mainstream vehicle electronics, namely their Auto Gearboxes, and my Business partner and I were faced with moving with the times or selling up. So yes, I've been learning and am still learning on a daily basis for a very long time now

Your Autels will serve you well, and possibly without you knowing, are training you in the art of diagnosing the modern systems, these systems rely on communication with other systems, which, the newer the Car the more communications goes on, this is called CAN Communication

The more complex electronics, the more CAN Buses and communication that vehicle has.

2 Years ago I had the pleasure of owning a 2017 E Class AMG for a while, semi autonomous, an amazing Car, and I was pretty good with diagnostics back then, but when I plugged it into my then brand new new SDS I was blown away by the amount of Electronics, even when compared to my older high end W220 S Class ..................... Amazed . com

A little nugget here for those who do not know this ...................

Say you have a fault in your ME ECU and can access that on an OBD Machine, that fault says CAN Comm Error in xxx module, this does not mean you have a fault on your CAN Bus !

It is telling you you have either lost communication with the "xxx module" or there is a fault in the xxx , so you should look there as the next step, and some communicated faults can and do put other systems into limp mode...............

The rest of this post does not just apply to MB, but all Marques ................

Think ABS Sensor fault, VR Roof won't operate, because it needs to see road speed, so for safety, VR shuts down, roof will not open
There are many many more but this is a common one that lots here have come across

Now as the operators skills progress that is the time when he or she needs to access that xxx module, and should consider up grading the machine they are using for dealer level kit

I have a top of the range Autel generic (generic = reads a lot of different marques), this also does Module Flashing Updates and Version Coding, but again it does not do everything like Dealer Level, which is why I have different Dealer Level kits for all the popular Vehicles that come into the Workshop.

There are lots of less popular Vehicles, Kia, Fiat, Iveco etc and that is why I have my Generics .....................
I have the original Snap On "brick" the MT2500, with every Pod and Lead Kit they ever did, that was my first Machine. Then I upgraded to the Snap On Solus Ultra, along the way I also bought Delphi, because I needed to access ABS on an Iveco Truck, I then found it also did a lot of other stuff that the Snap On didn't.
Last year, instead of up grading to newer Snap On, I went for the top of the range Autel Tablet for various reasons, mainly Snap On is no longer cost effective compared to Autel.

My first Dealer Level kit was 2012 SDS, bought when I started working on fleets of MB's up here, and realised that my other kits were simply not giving me enough

The only 2 Generic Machines I know that are better that Autel hi end are Bosch KTS series and Autologic, and these are usually purchased by huge independent garages and cost upwards of 20k

My Generics allow me to access common systems like ABS, SRS, Engine, Transmission and Instrument Cluster, although a lot of the Instrument Cluster info is unavailable and I would think that applies to your Autels on your MBs, that function on cheaper Machines is more for Service Light interval resets etc

I hope this was useful, and when Forum Members skills with these machines progress, then you will realise what else you need to be able to do to maintain your Vehicles, their are one or 2 guys who have just bitten the bullet and bought SDS and I am very keen to see what they have to say regarding their new purchase .......................

As always, I'm here to help, and will be happy to answer questions etc on Forum, as I'm sure are other guys with similar experience to me on here, it is better to post such questions on Forum rather than PM because then the whole SLK Community benefits

Final bit of info to take in for now .................

Just because a Car has OBD I or II compatibility it still does not mean a Machine will access more than 80% of Codes, even if it can access more Modules, it will still not see ALL Modules, nor ALL Codes, the Dealer Level Kit will.

A 1000 Autel generic is a very good machine, it will do more than the 150 Autel, but it still will not get more than my 80% of 80% which I keep banging on about

LOL, Mel has just bough me a T shirt, it says "Warning, I Can Talk About Cars For Hours" ................

I better go do some work, busy week ahead

Cheers for now, Dave
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@Dave2302 Again thank you for taking the time for such a comprehensive response, you have convinced me, Soooo am I looking for a good used Star C3 as I only need/want it for my R170.

The trouble is when I start to research anything like this my brain goes into lock down I gave up being a mechanic when I joined the forces in 1972 but it was a good grounding and have maintained/repaired my own and family and friends vehicles since so never really got away from the dirty fingernails although now I am a little long in the tooth for scrabbling about under cars now, except my own of course.

Cheers Graham
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My pre production R170 test/demonstrator built August 19th 1996 saved from almost certain to be broken up for spares. Potentially the oldest surviving RHD by VIN?
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One green Rizla paper = standard points gap .. the good old days


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Originally Posted by Dave2302 View Post

I hope this was useful, and when Forum Members skills with these machines progress, then you will realise what else you need to be able to do to maintain your Vehicles, their are one or 2 guys who have just bitten the bullet and bought SDS and I am very keen to see what they have to say regarding their new purchase .......................
Should be here on Wednesday

Not that there's anything wrong with either of my MB's atm but you've convinced me that it'll be an interesting toy/addition to the family .. it was either that or a new graphics card for my gaming rig
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