Help with a radio installation - Mercedes Benz SLK Forum

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#1 Old 05-10-2019
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Help with a radio installation

I've created a double-DIN opening in my SLK R170 and I've purchased a used Pioneer AVIC-F960DAB unit. I'm keen to fit it and to prove that it works. The Pioneer requires a speed-sensor wire and reverse-gear detection wire. Looking at what must be the car's original radio connector, I've found a light-green wire at pin position A1. That, I believe, must be the speed-sensor wire that I need. So that leaves the reverse-gear detector wire. I've been informed that I should find that near the auto-gear selector between the seats? I ask what should I be looking for and what colour wire? Do I just splice into it and connect to the Pioneer? Finally, there is a small socket at the rear of the Pioneer unit with a short cable attached. That is the vehicle Bus conversion cable. It ends in a small 3-pin socket. I am unsure about this ..... does it need to be connected and if it does, then to where? Thanks ...

David
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#2 Old 05-10-2019
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#3 Old 05-10-2019
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You would think that somebody somewhere in the world might have done this before. Have you done the usual searches etc.
Personally I don't have a clue but savcom may have a wiring schematic that could help.
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#4 Old 05-10-2019
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Originally Posted by stu32 View Post
Have you done the usual searches etc.
Yes, I've used the Forums search facility but it's not TOO helpful .... mainly to do with more recent models (R171) I'm inclined to think that linking in to canBus is for more advanced cars, not just Mercedes models. Still it's good to know that from a member AND there's that reverse-gear connection to establish, too. It would be useful to get help with that ....

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#5 Old 05-10-2019
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I have done this on my R170. I used the instructions from WIS for dealers to install an after market Becker Travel Pilot sat nav radio.

I will dig out the details tomorrow when I get back home and post.

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Reverse is easy, just find the flasher though may activate on 4-way. No idea what "speed sensor" they want since are many VSSs with different outputs


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see if @Dave2302 knows
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#8 Old 05-10-2019
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I gather these inputs are required to run a GPS and backup camera? Otherwise why would you need them?
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#9 Old 05-11-2019
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Originally Posted by borris1954 View Post
I have done this on my R170. I used the instructions from WIS for dealers to install an after market Becker Travel Pilot sat nav radio.

I will dig out the details tomorrow when I get back home and post.

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Hi

Here is a link to WIS retrofit instructions I used to retrofit the Becker Travel Pilot in my 230. Although I just secured the GPS antenna under the dash on top of the left hand side air vent duct. Easy option that works great in th UK.

https://mbwis.net/en/doc/34000209

The reverse and speed signals are needed in conjunction with an in built gyro/turn rate sensor so that position can be (fairly) accurately tracked in the absence of any GPS signals such as when in long tunnels, "urban canyons" or even multi storey car parks.

Hope this may help.

Bob

PS it's the gray/yellow wire at the gear selector you need for the reverse signal.

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#10 Old 05-11-2019
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Thanks for that, Bob! That just leaves the question of using the supplied connection-lead to tie into the canBus to be resolved ... I feel that I can just ignor it. Is that a reasonable conclusion to make?

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#11 Old 05-11-2019
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Originally Posted by DAJ 190 View Post
Thanks for that, Bob! That just leaves the question of using the supplied connection-lead to tie into the canBus to be resolved ... I feel that I can just ignor it. Is that a reasonable conclusion to make?



David
In your shoes that's what I would do. It can't do any harm. I dont know anything about the unit you are installing but would guess it can optionally pick up speed and reverse signals via the can bus. Given the age of a 170 I would be a bit concerned about potential can bus versions mismatch issues and incompatibility.

Good luck

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#12 Old 05-11-2019
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Originally Posted by borris1954 View Post

PS it's the gray/yellow wire at the gear selector you need for the reverse signal.
O.K., nearly there! On the right of the auto gear-changer is a bound group of 3 wires. There are TWO wires coloured yellow with a grey stripe and a further wire which is pink with a red stripe. It's because there are two wires that I'm asking if I HAVE found the correct wire(s) and are there two because it is a current in/current out circuit? So I WOULD need to connect to the correct wire? The Pioneer needs to know when reverse gear is selected, so I'd want to connect to the wire that is live only when it is in reversing mode? Maybe I haven't found the correct wire, yet? There is a quite hefty bunch of wires, nearby .... I am SO keen to get this operational and to prove that it is fully working. Sometimes items are disposed of through Ebay because there is a problem, but I'll keep hoping that all is well ....

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#13 Old 05-11-2019
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Hi

Yes now you mention it I recall there were two wires but they were connected together at the selector. Your new wire needs to connect to the same point. So as the existing two are already connected together you can connect to either of them.

Hope that makes sense. Good luck.

Bob

PS If you dig around on the website link I sent you will find a page telling you how to test the reverse signal.

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Thanks for all your help, Bob .... Much appreciated!

David
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#15 Old 05-12-2019
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Hi,

I recently installed Android in my R170.

Forget CAN Bus, R170 does not have the correct functionality on it's Body CAN.

If you look at my thread in Performance Mods you will see how complicated it gets, especially as I added a Steering Wheel with buttons.

Sat Nav will be very accurate even without a speed signal, the only other reason for speed signal is to increase volume as speed rises.
My Android functions perfectly without Speed Signal.

Reverse Camera, I just used the Video Phono Lead that also has a separate core to take a +ve Supply from the Rev Lamp Bulb and connects to the Back Up Lamp + on the HU, and the Video Cam Phono hooks in to the relevant H/U Video Input.

I would not try tapping Shifter, AFAIK the (Facelift at least), Auto Shifters are working on a Powertrain CAN "signal" for PRND to TCU rather than a hard wired 12V output.

I have also installed these units in later MB Cars which have several full function CAN's, Body, Chassis and Powertrain, and they are soooooooo much easier to do, because the CAN Decoder does everything for you.
The R170 is however "old skool" and so needs a lot more hard wiring

HTH,

Cheers Dave
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#16 Old 05-12-2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2302 View Post
My Android functions perfectly without Speed Signal.
I would not try tapping Shifter, AFAIK the (Facelift at least), Auto Shifters are working on a Powertrain CAN "signal" for PRND to TCU rather than a hard wired 12V output.
The R170 is however "old skool" and so needs a lot more hard wiring
Thanks for that, Dave. However, your advice has come a bit late! I've completed everything and it seems to be working well! I did tie into what I've assumed was the reverse gear wire and I've also used what, I hope, is the speed signal. Nothing is amiss up to now! I could, on your recommendation, break that connection to the gear-changer? Something DID surprise me, however! When the unit is powered-up, you first get a "Pioneer" logo and then it comes up with a Mercedes logo! So I ask this :- how does the Pioneer unit know that it is fitted into a Mercedes car?

David
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#17 Old 05-12-2019
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Hi David

Glad it seems to be working ok.

Your call but personally I would leave the reverse signal in place. It is after all what the MB retrofit instructions for both version of the R170 tell you to do when fitting the original spec Becker sat nav radio.. I can probably find the wiring diagram but seem to recollect that what you have tapped into is the 12v trigger for the reversing lights rather the TCU. Whilst sat nav will work well on GPS only that's really only true when it can see 3 or more satellites. With the speed signal and reverse signals in place your position can be accurately tracked on the map (even if you do a u turn) during periods when no satellites are being received.

Interesting it displays Mercedes. Must be have an ESP mode!

Bob

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#18 Old 05-13-2019
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Yes, it seems to be an "all singing, all dancing" piece of kit! It auto-updates the sat-nav mapping, time is maintained and all those in-built functions are unbelievable! I'm going to connect my Iphone, even if I never use it! LOL! There's a feature called "mirror" which I'll have to gen-up on. It is going to be SO underused (My SLK is purely a pleasure toy and not used frequently) But when I DO use it, WOW, what joy do I get from it! It drives superbly on very cheap LPG and the scenery through beautiful North Wales is absolutely breathtaking! Last Sunday I did a tour of FOUR lakes : Brenig, Bala, Llyn Celyn and Trawsfynydd. Top down (of course) .... heaven! AND I didn't even need sat-nav! I still would be very interested to know where that "Mercedes" logo comes from?
I have been reading the operations manual and I've found another possible reason for that speed-detection connection! That's playback of DVD's! It states that this can only be performed with the vehicle stationary! So that might be why that connection is made?

David
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#19 Old 05-13-2019
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Hi,

Yes good call, re speed and dvd's, although there is a menu option to set that to on whilst driving and off whilst driving (at least there is on the Erisin and XTrons Android).

The MB Logo, there is a Menu option in "Factory Settings" on the Androids, (again Erisin etc as I have no knowledge of Pioneer), which allows you to choose many many different manufacturers Logos, I suspect if you ordered your Pioneer for your Mercedes then the vendor pre set it to display the Star Logo upon boot up.

I doubt the unit is sophisticated enough to identify what Car it is fitted to

HTH,

Cheers Dave
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#20 Old 05-13-2019
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Originally Posted by Dave2302 View Post
Hi,

I suspect if you ordered your Pioneer for your Mercedes then the vendor pre set it to display the Star Logo upon boot up.

I doubt the unit is sophisticated enough to identify what Car it is fitted to

HTH,

Cheers Dave
No, it was a typical Ebay purchase AND it's 5 years old! That "Mercedes" logo just appeared when I first powered it up. It has come up, on start-up, every time, since. I've done absolutely nothing to it for this to happen. It was a real surprise, that's for sure! So the mystery continues .... a prize for solving it? LOL! Talking about "mysteries" .... here's another one! There seems to be no way to simply turn off the Pioneer when not in use! You can blank the screen and turn the volume down to zero, but you can't just turn it off! I've read the user manual right through (180 pages) and I couldn't find any way to just turn off! Strange .....

David
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