RESOLVED - Top problems... again but r170 - Mercedes Benz SLK Forum

SLK R170 General Discussion SLK 200, SLK 230K, SLK 320, SLK32 AMG

 20Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
#1 Old 02-10-2018
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Virginia Beach, Va & Port Charlotte, Fl.
Vehicle: 2005 SLK 350
Other Toys: 2007 Z06, 1965 427 AC Cobra, 2003 Z4, 2013 Yukon Denali, 2016 Harley Road King & 2018 Road King
Posts: 110
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Thanks: 10
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
(Thread Starter)
RESOLVED - Top problems... again but r170

This is a new problem.

It seems/acts like/appears that the pump is developing inadequate pressure to properly raise and lower the top on its own. If someone operates the switch and I provide a lift assist to the roof, etc it works fine. It just seems like the pump's pressure isn't adequate to operate it by itself. It just started this all at once, not a progressive thing.

Any thoughts or pertinent experiences with anything like this?

Last edited by Avel Du; 02-23-2018 at 11:49 PM.
undy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 02-10-2018
Administrator/Founding Member

 
jbanks15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tampa, Florida
Vehicle: 2009 SLK 55 AMG Kleemann Supercharger, ECU tune, Headers and LSD, CF Diffuser
Posts: 91,734
Country:
Chats: 38
Mentioned: 470 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6544 Post(s)
Thanks: 3,246
Thanked 11,083 Times in 8,437 Posts
How old is car battery?
This has been shown in the past with roof issues
Is car on when testing roof?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeff, US Army Master Sergeant Retired
Administrator/Founding Member
2009 SLK 55 AMG Black/Black
Kleemann Supercharger thread here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Kleemann ECU Tune, headers and downpipes thread here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Albums:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ClearBra
OEM MB Plexiglass Draught Stop
Smarttop version 3.22
Previous - 02 SLK 320, 05 SLK 350
jbanks15 is offline  
#3 Old 02-10-2018
Administrator/Founding Member

 
jbanks15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tampa, Florida
Vehicle: 2009 SLK 55 AMG Kleemann Supercharger, ECU tune, Headers and LSD, CF Diffuser
Posts: 91,734
Country:
Chats: 38
Mentioned: 470 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6544 Post(s)
Thanks: 3,246
Thanked 11,083 Times in 8,437 Posts
https://www.slkworld.com/slk-r170-cla...leapyfish.html

https://www.slkworld.com/slk-r170-cla...ostic-aid.html


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeff, US Army Master Sergeant Retired
Administrator/Founding Member
2009 SLK 55 AMG Black/Black
Kleemann Supercharger thread here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Kleemann ECU Tune, headers and downpipes thread here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Albums:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ClearBra
OEM MB Plexiglass Draught Stop
Smarttop version 3.22
Previous - 02 SLK 320, 05 SLK 350
jbanks15 is offline  
 
#4 Old 02-10-2018
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Virginia Beach, Va & Port Charlotte, Fl.
Vehicle: 2005 SLK 350
Other Toys: 2007 Z06, 1965 427 AC Cobra, 2003 Z4, 2013 Yukon Denali, 2016 Harley Road King & 2018 Road King
Posts: 110
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Thanks: 10
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbanks15 View Post
How old is car battery?
This has been shown in the past with roof issues
Is car on when testing roof?
it's not the battery. It cranks the car fine. The top runs the same with the car off/ign or running, it makes no difference. Everything sure points to the hydraulic circuit (pump most likely, possibly a partially stuck solenoid). I'm sure there's a way to check the output pressure of the pump. I've searched high and low and can't find any troubleshooting that really homes in on the hydraulic circuit, save the cylinders.
undy is offline  
#5 Old 02-10-2018
Administrator/Founding Member

 
jbanks15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tampa, Florida
Vehicle: 2009 SLK 55 AMG Kleemann Supercharger, ECU tune, Headers and LSD, CF Diffuser
Posts: 91,734
Country:
Chats: 38
Mentioned: 470 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6544 Post(s)
Thanks: 3,246
Thanked 11,083 Times in 8,437 Posts
Believe it or not, the battery comes into play for the roof operation
We have had members playing with the roof and the top would slow down because of drain on battery. just sayin'


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeff, US Army Master Sergeant Retired
Administrator/Founding Member
2009 SLK 55 AMG Black/Black
Kleemann Supercharger thread here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Kleemann ECU Tune, headers and downpipes thread here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Albums:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ClearBra
OEM MB Plexiglass Draught Stop
Smarttop version 3.22
Previous - 02 SLK 320, 05 SLK 350
jbanks15 is offline  
#6 Old 02-10-2018
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Virginia Beach, Va & Port Charlotte, Fl.
Vehicle: 2005 SLK 350
Other Toys: 2007 Z06, 1965 427 AC Cobra, 2003 Z4, 2013 Yukon Denali, 2016 Harley Road King & 2018 Road King
Posts: 110
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Thanks: 10
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Battery is 12.8 VDC static, 14.3 VDC engine running. I can rule out the battery. I guess it's possible that I'm not getting full battery voltage to the pump. Then again, where do I check pump voltage at?
undy is offline  
#7 Old 02-10-2018
Administrator/Founding Member

 
jbanks15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tampa, Florida
Vehicle: 2009 SLK 55 AMG Kleemann Supercharger, ECU tune, Headers and LSD, CF Diffuser
Posts: 91,734
Country:
Chats: 38
Mentioned: 470 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6544 Post(s)
Thanks: 3,246
Thanked 11,083 Times in 8,437 Posts
let's summon the experts

@Mn car guy
@efair
@stu32
@savcom
@Turdo2
@Padgett
simplyslk and Reggster1 like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeff, US Army Master Sergeant Retired
Administrator/Founding Member
2009 SLK 55 AMG Black/Black
Kleemann Supercharger thread here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Kleemann ECU Tune, headers and downpipes thread here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Albums:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ClearBra
OEM MB Plexiglass Draught Stop
Smarttop version 3.22
Previous - 02 SLK 320, 05 SLK 350
jbanks15 is offline  
#8 Old 02-10-2018
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Virginia Beach, Va & Port Charlotte, Fl.
Vehicle: 2005 SLK 350
Other Toys: 2007 Z06, 1965 427 AC Cobra, 2003 Z4, 2013 Yukon Denali, 2016 Harley Road King & 2018 Road King
Posts: 110
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Thanks: 10
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Thanks Jeff, don't know what I'd do without you! Us Military retirees are always there for a buddy.
jbanks15 and Avel Du like this.
undy is offline  
#9 Old 02-10-2018
Premium Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Atlanta
Vehicle: 2005 SLK 55; 2005 SLK 350
Other Toys: Several past R170's
Posts: 4,309
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 594 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Thanks: 155
Thanked 518 Times in 479 Posts
Definitely test the battery.

The pump could've failed, or a solenoid failed, or a seal failed, or some other blockage found its way into the lines (which would likely be one of the aforementioned seals).

It takes some pretty specialized equipment to test the ten different circuits. It would be good to have, but I haven't seen anybody here do it. I sent mine to top hydraulics, they did it right.
jbanks15 likes this.
efair is offline  
#10 Old 02-10-2018
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle: Looking to keep Jeff off my back.
Other Toys: Carver 350 Mariner, Boston Whaler Dauntless, 1961 Les Paul Formerly 2003 slk 230
Posts: 550
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 275 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 63 Times in 57 Posts
As efair said, I'd start with a batt test. The voltage readings are fine but it might change when you put a load on it. Secondly, are you sure you have enough fluid in the system? After that, you could take a shot at flushing and filling the system with new hydrallic fluid. Here's a good post on it (though sadly it degenrates later on). https://www.slkworld.com/slk-r170-cla...-draining.html If that fails to do anything, it might be time for a cylinder rebuild. I've never used him, but this is reported to be 'the guy' for cylinder rebuilds. https://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/20-r170-slk

Finally, anyway you'd loan your 427 ac cobra for a day or two? (Asking for a friend).
jbanks15 and Idiot101 like this.
Mn car guy is offline  
#11 Old 02-10-2018
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Virginia Beach, Va & Port Charlotte, Fl.
Vehicle: 2005 SLK 350
Other Toys: 2007 Z06, 1965 427 AC Cobra, 2003 Z4, 2013 Yukon Denali, 2016 Harley Road King & 2018 Road King
Posts: 110
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Thanks: 10
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by efair View Post
Definitely test the battery.

The pump could've failed, or a solenoid failed, or a seal failed, or some other blockage found its way into the lines (which would likely be one of the aforementioned seals).

It takes some pretty specialized equipment to test the ten different circuits. It would be good to have, but I haven't seen anybody here do it. I sent mine to top hydraulics, they did it right.
It sure looks like I need to find someone specialized in my area, Port Charlotte, FL. There's just too many possibilities. FWIW, all circuits/cylinders are seemingly operating at a reduced pressure. As long as I assist with a gentle lift or push it runs through the cycles fine. My gut feeling is the pump. There's several used ones on EBay.
undy is offline  
#12 Old 02-10-2018
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Virginia Beach, Va & Port Charlotte, Fl.
Vehicle: 2005 SLK 350
Other Toys: 2007 Z06, 1965 427 AC Cobra, 2003 Z4, 2013 Yukon Denali, 2016 Harley Road King & 2018 Road King
Posts: 110
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Thanks: 10
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mn car guy View Post
As efair said, I'd start with a batt test. The voltage readings are fine but it might change when you put a load on it. Secondly, are you sure you have enough fluid in the system? After that, you could take a shot at flushing and filling the system with new hydrallic fluid. Here's a good post on it (though sadly it degenrates later on). https://www.slkworld.com/slk-r170-cla...-draining.html If that fails to do anything, it might be time for a cylinder rebuild. I've never used him, but this is reported to be 'the guy' for cylinder rebuilds. https://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/20-r170-slk

Finally, anyway you'd loan your 427 ac cobra for a day or two? (Asking for a friend).
The battery and fluid is fine. Last year I rebuilt the front cylinder and it's been operating flawlessly, until now. The hydraulic fluid, by large, is clear and fresh, The only thing I'm sure on is that it's not a cylinder problem.

We could probably work something out with the Cobra for someone who fixes this darn top... .
Idiot101 likes this.
undy is offline  
#13 Old 02-10-2018
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle: Looking to keep Jeff off my back.
Other Toys: Carver 350 Mariner, Boston Whaler Dauntless, 1961 Les Paul Formerly 2003 slk 230
Posts: 550
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 275 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 63 Times in 57 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by undy View Post
The battery and fluid is fine. Last year I rebuilt the front cylinder and it's been operating flawlessly, until now. The hydraulic fluid, by large, is clear and fresh, The only thing I'm sure on is that it's not a cylinder problem.

We could probably work something out with the Cobra for someone who fixes this darn top... .
It's about 5 degrees up here and I don't have much to do. Sounds like it could be the pump. If you are in florida, I found a couple at junk yards and you could get a used pump for 40 bucks according to their price list. Here's the one with a couple SLKs https://www.lkqpickyourpart.com/loca...t-196/recents/. Might not work but it's worth a shot for 40 bucks.
jbanks15 likes this.
Mn car guy is offline  
#14 Old 02-10-2018
Premium Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Atlanta
Vehicle: 2005 SLK 55; 2005 SLK 350
Other Toys: Several past R170's
Posts: 4,309
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 594 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Thanks: 155
Thanked 518 Times in 479 Posts
Dumb question - are you sure the emergency relief is fully closed?
efair is offline  
#15 Old 02-10-2018
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Virginia Beach, Va & Port Charlotte, Fl.
Vehicle: 2005 SLK 350
Other Toys: 2007 Z06, 1965 427 AC Cobra, 2003 Z4, 2013 Yukon Denali, 2016 Harley Road King & 2018 Road King
Posts: 110
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Thanks: 10
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by efair View Post
Dumb question - are you sure the emergency relief is fully closed?
Emergency relief?



Is there anyway to tell if it's actually the pump that's failing?
undy is offline  
#16 Old 02-10-2018
Super Moderator/RoTMorganiser

 
Avel Du's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Wirral, England
Vehicle: 2007 SLK55AMG
Other Toys: SLK350/C200AMG(Bluebadger),MK I Nissan Murano (2008), Honda VFR 800 FiW (1998), CB400four f2 (1978)
Posts: 23,211
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 271 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2282 Post(s)
Thanks: 1,978
Thanked 1,473 Times in 1,359 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mn car guy View Post
After that, you could take a shot at flushing and filling the system with new hydrallic fluid. Here's a good post on it (though sadly it degenrates later on). https://www.slkworld.com/slk-r170-cla...-draining.html If that fails to do anything, it might be time for a cylinder rebuild. I've never used him, but this is reported to be 'the guy' for cylinder rebuilds. https://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/20-r170-slk

Finally, anyway you'd loan your 427 ac cobra for a day or two? (Asking for a friend).

If by 'degenerates' you mean the missing photos?
I've tried fixing, to no avail.
I've pm'd the original poster to see if he can help.

Myk
(Moderator/Ride of the Month Coordinator)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Thanks go to those that post problems, solutions & feedback. It all helps.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Smartop : Cubby Holder : Cree fronts : Both rear fogs : Clock Insert : Quicksilver exhaust



Useful R170 diy:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Useful R171 diy:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Useful R172 diy:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Avel Du is offline  
#17 Old 02-10-2018
Premium Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Atlanta
Vehicle: 2005 SLK 55; 2005 SLK 350
Other Toys: Several past R170's
Posts: 4,309
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 594 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Thanks: 155
Thanked 518 Times in 479 Posts
Emergency relief= brass fitting that, when opened fully, prevents pressurization (and allows manual raising and lowering). If it is loose, your pump will lose pressure across the board.
efair is offline  
#18 Old 02-10-2018
Premium Member
 
savcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Vehicle: 2002 Blue SLK320 known as 'Silkie"
Other Toys: 2010 Grey BMW F10 528i
Posts: 2,574
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 491 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 609 Post(s)
Thanks: 167
Thanked 299 Times in 242 Posts
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to savcom
I'm wondering if the mechanism is stiff? When was the last time the hinges and so on were greased? You *may* find this is all you need to do. See the thread on Gummi Pfledge that everyone refers to.

As you can see from the attached, the pump is powered by a motor and this motor is driven by a relay. It's therefore possible that the relay is cruddy and needs a clean or replacement.

N10-3.JPG

A1 Instrument cluster
A7/5k1 Relay
A7/5m1 Motor
A7/5y1 Main valve
A7/5y2 Trunk lid cylinder
M10/3 Left front power window motor (voltage supply)
M10/4 Right front power window motor (voltage supply)
M10/5 Left rear power window motor
M10/6 Right rear power window motor
N10-3 Combination control module
N47 Traction system control module
S69/1 Vario roof "closed" limit switch (right lug)
S69/2 Vario roof "locked" limit switch (right rotary tumbler)
S69/3 Vario roof "locked" limit switch (left rotary tumbler)
S69/7 Left trunk lid "closed/locked" limit switch
S69/8 Right trunk lid "closed/locked" limit switch
S69/9 Trunk lid "open" limit switch
S69/10 Retractable luggage cover "closed" limit switch
S69/11 Vario roof "open/lowered" limit switch
S69/12 Trunk lid rotary tumbler/trunk lamp toggle switch
S84 Vario roof switch

The vario roof is controlled by an electro-hydraulic system. The system consists of the following main components:

One hydraulic unit with two solenoid valves and five hydraulic cylinders as well as nine limit switches, four power window motors, one control module and one control switch.
jbanks15 and Avel Du like this.

Now : Silkie - 2002 Lazulithe Blue Mercedes Benz SLK320
Also
: 2011 Sophisto Grey BMW F10 528i SE


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Brings a smile to my face whenever I drive her



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Previous :
1965 Triumph Herald 12/50 ... 1972 Austin 1300 ... 1982 Volvo 265GLE ...

1987 Volkswagen Caravelle ... 1997 Rover 214si ... 2002 BMW E39 530D

If I've helped you sort your problem(s) out, click the 'Thanks' button on the right hand side under my signature.
savcom is offline  
#19 Old 02-11-2018
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: North Wales
Vehicle: SLK32 AMG 2002 Brilliant Silver
Other Toys: Ginetta G32
Posts: 846
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 345 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 68 Times in 57 Posts
Garage
As above, I would suggest change the relay on the side of the pump as the contacts do burn. This could cause a high resistance in the power feed to the pump. The cost of a new relay from MB is small and good idea to change it every so often anyway before it gives trouble.
stu32 is offline  
#20 Old 02-11-2018
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Virginia Beach, Va & Port Charlotte, Fl.
Vehicle: 2005 SLK 350
Other Toys: 2007 Z06, 1965 427 AC Cobra, 2003 Z4, 2013 Yukon Denali, 2016 Harley Road King & 2018 Road King
Posts: 110
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Thanks: 10
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Thanks everyone, I think I'll replace the relay and check the emergency relief first. I'll look up the part number for the relay and try and locate the relief too.
Avel Du likes this.
undy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mercedes Benz SLK Forum > Mercedes Benz R170 SLK Class Cars > SLK R170 General Discussion

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Upload your files to MEGAUPLOAD
Upload your images to ImageShack

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes Benz SLK Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poll: Window position with top down malbry General Discussion 17 04-14-2016 04:50 PM
hard top problems slk55 2006 electromechtechnical SLK R171 General Discussion 4 06-27-2013 11:35 PM
hard top lovers what is wrong with a Soft Top? Berliner Heckflosse Off Topic 30 02-18-2012 01:14 PM
New owner with top problems Mike in Kentucky New Members Introduce Yourself Here 10 05-30-2010 01:30 PM
Retractable Top Problems Alan SLK R171 General Discussion 8 01-11-2009 09:20 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
 

Clubs, Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.