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#1 Old 05-07-2012
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Speakers again

Did not find any answers on the question using the search so I have to ask it.
Does anybody know if there is holes ready for speakers in the rear wall behind the seats? Somebody had removed the panels and didn´t find any wiring but did not mention if there was any holes in the body. How is the Bose- system built?
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#2 Old 05-07-2012
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Originally Posted by patrick56 View Post
Did not find any answers on the question using the search so I have to ask it.
Does anybody know if there is holes ready for speakers in the rear wall behind the seats? Somebody had removed the panels and didn´t find any wiring but did not mention if there was any holes in the body. How is the Bose- system built?
The short answer is No. The holes on the rear bulk head are not speaker ready. Although I believe this, and the pictures seem to demonstrate this, I can not verify it. All of the pictures I've seen, of people adding full range speakers to the rear bulkhead, do so by building up their own mounting surface, they use the Bose "Woofer" hole for clearance . . .

Pictures are off the web, so if you see the owners, please thank them . . .

First pic is of the typically non-Bose empty hole, second is of the way the Bose woofer is (supposed?) to be mounted - more like a port actually, and the third is cut from a parts "assembly sheet" that you might purchase the speaker off of (which seems to show an enclosure behind the bulkhead . . . which matches the other pictures) last picture is how one adventurous German SLK owner was mounting a full range speaker over the Bose holes . . . . (I would like to get confirmation on the second/third picture . . . . )

Hope that helps and/or others can confirm or discuss.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg WooferHole-a.jpg (77.3 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Woofer-a.jpg (88.0 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg RearMount-a.jpg (60.1 KB, 172 views)
File Type: jpg Assembly - Audio - SW.jpg (48.1 KB, 5 views)
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#3 Old 05-08-2012
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Speakers

Ok, thank´s Lilred! It seems easier to change the speakers in the doors in an effort to improve the sound. The original speakers are not worth anything.
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#4 Old 05-09-2012
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Originally Posted by patrick56 View Post
Ok, thank´s Lilred! It seems easier to change the speakers in the doors in an effort to improve the sound. The original speakers are not worth anything.
Yes, but 90% of the quality of the sound of a speaker is in the enclosure / mounting. If you don't improve that, even the best speakers will not give a great improvement.

Removing the door panels is pretty straight forward. Go and have a look. Install some Dynamat or dead sheet, maybe some felt between the door and the door panel. The more sound you can kill from behind the driver, the better the sound from the front. Don't underestimate the stock speakers. They are not bad, and from a mounting point of view, most of teh hard work has been done.
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#5 Old 05-09-2012
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Originally Posted by PMB View Post
Yes, but 90% of the quality of the sound of a speaker is in the enclosure / mounting. . . . .
Have you ever tried to isolate the sound coming from the rear woofers though? Very disappointing in my opinion. Certainly they do contribute to the overall sound, but (IMHO) not very much. And since our vehicles are very space challenged as to where we might add anything, the addition of fuller rage speakers in the doors, if the frequency increase can be taken advantage of, would seem to help. (And since the lower door position is already set up/enclosed for the mid range, I would think that that would be a very suitable place for the additional range.)

Last edited by lilred320SLK; 05-09-2012 at 05:20 PM. Reason: typos *&^%^&$ typos . . . .
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#6 Old 05-09-2012
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I understand that lilred, and improving the door position / enclosure further is what I am talking about. My Focals are still breaking in, and I have not tested how deep they are going as yet, but my guess is that they are producing decent bass in the 40-50hz range, with a little help from equalisation. Personally, these days I am not that interested in thunderously deep bass pounding out and massaging my back. However, more of the same in the 40's range would be nice. My next step will be to install subs in the back, possibly in small enclosures. However, I will do nothing until I know exactly how good the Focal 165V30s are. So far they are quite incredible, but need more sound deadening for behind the seats.
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#7 Old 05-09-2012
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Originally Posted by PMB View Post
. . . and improving the door position / enclosure further is what I am talking about. . . . .
Ok, perhaps I misunderstood since we were discussing options to go into the rear bulkhead. Correct me if I'm wrong, but after I looked up your speaker set, you are using a mid/woofer range in the doors' mid range position and a tweeter in the doors' tweeter position? (With nothing behind the seats?)

(May I ask where you mounted the cross-over? And, what does the OEM do for the cross-over? (I suspect that the OEM uses just various band-pass filter methods?)

If I understand your setup now, I can go for your answer since it pretty much describes my suggestion with the doors . . . when I thought you were speaking of the OEM rear woofers. (ie "Don't underestimate the stock speakers.") I don't know if patrick56 has woofers in the back or not, but even if he does (and I do) changing out the door speakers has to be a lot easier!!

I can't put my finger on my sound issues yet, I have the BOSE 3 element per side OEM speaker set up now being driven by my new HU's amp. This means I have (up to) 18 watts (rms) going to each door, and each woofer behind the seats. (4 X 18) It's ok . . . but it just sounds a little off even though I've done everything I can, including the HU's, rear channel low pass base enhancement for the woofers.

I'm wondering if the OEM woofers just can't keep up with the fronts now and are just being overwhelmed a little.
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#8 Old 05-10-2012
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Originally Posted by lilred320SLK View Post
Ok, perhaps I misunderstood since we were discussing options to go into the rear bulkhead.
Sorry. My first post on this was in response to Patrick's last where he said he just wanted to replace the door speakers as the stock ones were not worth anything.

[quote}Correct me if I'm wrong, but after I looked up your speaker set, you are using a mid/woofer range in the doors' mid range position and a tweeter in the doors' tweeter position? (With nothing behind the seats?)[/quote]
Correct. Nothing behind the seats as yet. I am using just the 2-way door positions. The thing is I chose that specific set as the bass driver specification suggest that it could actually produce quite deep bass, which turns out to be correct!

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(May I ask where you mounted the cross-over? And, what does the OEM do for the cross-over? (I suspect that the OEM uses just various band-pass filter methods?)
Behind the door panels at the top front. In fact it looks very much like Murat's from the other thread. The non-Bose OEM uses a first order (6db cap) for the tweeter, and a second order (12db combo) for the bass. However, it also uses a rather nifty plastic horn on the bass driver to direct sound into the car so it does not get lost behind the panel. This is something I need to think about. Honestly, the OEM stock speakers are not good, but the installation is brilliant, and as I said before, 90% of the sound is the installation.

Quote:
If I understand your setup now, I can go for your answer since it pretty much describes my suggestion with the doors . . . when I thought you were speaking of the OEM rear woofers. (ie "Don't underestimate the stock speakers.") I don't know if patrick56 has woofers in the back or not, but even if he does (and I do) changing out the door speakers has to be a lot easier!!
I am not 100%, but do your doors have only a tweeter and small mid, or are there three speakers in there? If you only have a small mid in the doors I would definitely put some 6.5" in there, even if you have to try to get different door panels. The engineering that has gone into those mounting positions is brilliant.

It sounded to me like Patrick does not have the rears, as with mine. I am still undecided as to what to do. I have a test CD of frequencies and sweeps, etc., I intend to have a play with that setting things up. If it all works out well, I may not bother with rears as the way the Focals sound is really good. I just feel a tiny bit more bass would help. However, that tiny bit more bass can also be achieved by reducing roadnoise. Most of my road noise seems to be coming from behind so I will be applying dead sheet there first.

Quote:
I can't put my finger on my sound issues yet, I have the BOSE 3 element per side OEM speaker set up now being driven by my new HU's amp. This means I have (up to) 18 watts (rms) going to each door, and each woofer behind the seats. (4 X 18) It's ok . . . but it just sounds a little off even though I've done everything I can, including the HU's, rear channel low pass base enhancement for the woofers.

I'm wondering if the OEM woofers just can't keep up with the fronts now and are just being overwhelmed a little.
Try playing with the sub woofer cross over frequency and level. You may have to raise/ lower it to get the best sound. Another thing that is really useful on these Sonys os the Position feature. If you set that for Front L, the soundstage is digitally positioned right in front of you. It uses a combination of digital delay and slight volume adjustments to achieve this. There is also a fine adjustment to get it perfect. Apart from putting the sound stage where it is best for you, it tightens the improves the bass, in that if you think, you have the two bass drivers at different distances from you, so the sound is reaching your ears with a slight delay from one of them. This can sound slightly disorientating. When you use the Position feature it digitally delays the first bass signal in order to improve that timing. Definitely worth a play. I am still learning and playing with this Sony all the time, and there is still much to learn.

Let me know how you get on. If you come across any fantastic tips I would apprieciate them. However, experimentation is all part of the fun.
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#9 Old 05-10-2012
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Hi, the truth is that I do not have anything else than a very basic speaker system. I had a short glimpse as I had to reconnect the wire from the door handle. I thought that I could improve on the sound at the same time as I have to glue the window stoppers back in place. There are tweeters up and some kind of (seems) simple speakers down in the front edge of the doors. I did not see any other speakers and there is not anything behind the seats ( I think).
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#10 Old 05-10-2012
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Patrick - did the speaker look like the one in this ebay link?

Mercedes W170 SLK Convertible Speaker Front Door Right | eBay

If it did that is the same as the ones that came out of mine. I thought they sounded really good considering they are stock. Plenty of bass, enough to be able to feel it. The speakers just lacked overall definition and clarity. That said, mine had the plastic moisture barrier which had a covering of felt to help improve the bass.

That said, my car is a good bit newer and they may have improved the installation.
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#11 Old 05-10-2012
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Originally Posted by patrick56 View Post
. . . I did not see any other speakers and there is not anything behind the seats ( I think).
Any OEM speaker in the back bulkhead (behind the seats) will have a grill of some kind coming through the carpet.

There are supposed to be speakers for the "phone" system in the footwells' outer kick panel. (I haven't ever seen or heard these though I see the perforations in the panel. I bring this up only for interest and on the wild chance that someone could put a real audio speaker in that position.)
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#12 Old 06-26-2012
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Originally Posted by PMB View Post
Patrick - did the speaker look like the one in this ebay link?

Mercedes W170 SLK Convertible Speaker Front Door Right | eBay

If it did that is the same as the ones that came out of mine. I thought they sounded really good considering they are stock. Plenty of bass, enough to be able to feel it. The speakers just lacked overall definition and clarity. That said, mine had the plastic moisture barrier which had a covering of felt to help improve the bass.

That said, my car is a good bit newer and they may have improved the installation.
Hi and sorry, I have been away for a time. Yes, they look exactly the same.
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#13 Old 06-28-2012
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The tricks to making any speaker sound good is to try to eliminate the sound generated by the back of the speaker itself coming to thet front. Dynamat is very good for this. The basic dynamat kit helps to stop the panel vibrating and rattling. However, to really make an improvement you need to cover the majority of the inner door frame and cover as many of the holes as you can. IN addition, a sheet of felt between the panel and the door card will further stop vibration. If you add to this a decent head unit with equalisation the amount of bass that you can get out of door speakers can be quite astounding.

Adding further woofers in the back can be counter productive as you end up effectively two left woofers and two right, but because all four drivers are different distences from you they sound gets to you at slightly different times causing a disorientated sound and phase issues which can effectively reduce the bass rather than add to it.

It is often said in audio that the simplest systems are often the best, and speakers are a prime example of that.
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