Any Interest in new PPE Headers? - Mercedes Benz SLK Forum

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#1 Old 05-27-2014
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Any Interest in new PPE Headers?

Anybody interested in creating a possible group buy for a set of PPE Headers. All would need is a donor car to test fit. They are located in Temple AZ.

They did a group buy for headers on the 350Z\G35 a while back. Their prices are very good and they do not make cheap china headers.

The SLK55 is limited header options.
EvoSport $2000 - a fancy expensive log type header
AMS - cheap china log type header
Kleeman $1800 - use to be good, production has changed to china
Renntech $3500 - a fancy expensive log type header
MBH\DynoComp $2650 - Long tube, great design, top notch

http://ppeengineering.com/

First step is to gauge interest. I think the best option are the long tube design like MBH. If we can get that design for $1400 I am sold. PPE makes long tube headers for the Lexus IS-F V8 for $1400 and $900 for short V8 headers for LS400. Prices should be similar.

Who has a car in AZ that would be willing to go without for days maybe a week?
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#2 Old 05-27-2014
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Originally Posted by CLyons0203 View Post
Anybody interested in creating a possible group buy for a set of PPE Headers. All would need is a donor car to test fit. They are located in Temple AZ.

They did a group buy for headers on the 350ZG35 a while back. Their prices are very good and they do not make cheap china headers.

The SLK55 is limited header options.
EvoSport $2000 - a fancy expensive log type header
AMS - cheap china log type header
Kleeman $1800 - use to be good, production has changed to china
Renntech $3500 - a fancy expensive log type header
MBHDynoComp $2650 - Long tube, great design, top notch

http://ppeengineering.com/

First step is to gauge interest. I think the best option are the long tube design like MBH. If we can get that design for $1400 I am sold. PPE makes long tube headers for the Lexus IS-F V8 for $1400 and $900 for short V8 headers for LS400. Prices should be similar.

Who has a car in AZ that would be willing to go without for days maybe a week?
If this was anywhere in the VA/MD/DC area, I'd be up for volunteering. I'm interested but price would be my main factor. Aren't the Kleemann headers usually on sale for $995 plus shipping? EvoSport I think went out of business. I guess you could add Supersprint to the list as well. There's other companies like Vath and MKB but it is impossible trying to communicate with them and they might only sell their headers as part of a kit-I'm not sure.

What about a copy of the SLK55 Black Series headers?


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#3 Old 05-27-2014
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Kleeman headers are cheap china headers. They spend about $200 if that to get them made, then charge 5 times that. Cant knock their hussle, but I am not trusting cheap headers. They crack!! and rust

I have no seen any info that says the SLK55 black series came with different headers.
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#4 Old 05-27-2014
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#5 Old 05-27-2014
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Originally Posted by CLyons0203 View Post
Kleeman headers are cheap china headers. They spend about $200 if that to get them made, then charge 5 times that. Cant knock their hussle, but I am not trusting cheap headers. They crack!! and rust

I have no seen any info that says the SLK55 black series came with different headers.
Right now I have headers from Kleeman on back order. They should be in within the week. The tuner I am buying them from specifically told me that their headers are made in Norway.

Having said that, it doesn't necessarily bother me when "quality" products come from China.......China has and does make quality goods in addition to junk........everything has to be kept in perspective and I think it's important to trust the "Brand" behind the name.

After I read your comment about Kleeman's quality I got a bit freaked out so googled it on the net. I did find two (2) problems that were posted on MBWorld.com, but both OPers stated that Kleeman replaced the product and made it good. With only two problems versus the many header systems they have out there I am no longer worried about the quality of Kleeman. Just my 2 cents.
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#6 Old 05-27-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLyons0203 View Post
Kleeman headers are cheap china headers. They spend about $200 if that to get them made, then charge 5 times that. Cant knock their hussle, but I am not trusting cheap headers. They crack!! and rust

I have no seen any info that says the SLK55 black series came with different headers.
Really? How else do you think the Black Series makes more power than a standard SLK55?

http://www.marcusfitzhugh.com/CLK/R171SLK55BS.html

Headers, cams, higher flow airbox (not sure about this but it does have some CF underneath it and the TB is wrapped in CF as well).







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#7 Old 05-28-2014
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Can you order the black series headers?
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#8 Old 05-28-2014
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Kleeman changed their headers. Look at the flange and runner layout. One is good and one is cheap china.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Real Kleeman.jpg (36.8 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg China Kleeman.jpg (39.2 KB, 32 views)

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#9 Old 05-28-2014
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Originally Posted by CLyons0203 View Post
Can you order the black series headers?
Pretty much impossible to get any Black Series parts. Even if the part numbers were discovered, you'd still need to own the car. I know there's more power with aftermarket headers and ditching the front cats. It would be nice to have a bolt-on option that is also emissions legal.

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Originally Posted by CLyons0203 View Post
Kleeman changed their headers. Look at the flange and runner layout. One is good and one is cheap china.
So are Kleemann headers "good" now or "cheap China" now?


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#10 Old 05-28-2014
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Originally Posted by jameslk55 View Post
.....
So are Kleemann headers "good" now or "cheap China" now?
Because of this thread, I spoke with Mr. Brandon Grantham today, he is the Director of Kleeman USA. We spoke at great lengths and in fact, Kleeman is now making products in "partnered" factories in Asia. Mr. Grantham went on to explain the things that all of us already know.....simply "it is near impossible to manufacture parts such as headers on European or American soil and maintain a price point anyone would be willing to pay". He went on to say "We could, of course, make headers in Sweden, Denmark and Germany, but they would cost $3,000 and we would sell very few of them. Apple (among many) has all of their products produced in the East - so we all know some quality goods can be produced there". He then told me "failure such as warping, cracking, etc. these have their root in two things: manufacture and installation. I cannot tell you how many hack jobs of installs I've seen in 15+ years, 100s at minimum".

Like just about every large manufacturer of consumer products on this globe, Kleemann has partnered including taking ownership in their Asian factories and have full time employees that oversee quality control to make sure that their final product is as good as their European makers have ever produced. Like all manufacturers, there have been a few defects but Kleemann stands behind everything they put their label on with a full One Year, no mileage cap, warranty. Kleemann headers are made of high quality stainless steel and feature mandrel bends and precision water-jet cut flanges. In addition, they guarantee that their headers will integrate with our stock engines flawlessly with no need for further modification. "The main difference between our headers and our competitors is the fact that their headers bolt to the factory exhaust system, which means the collector is the same size as factory (about 42mm). The collector on the KLEEMANN headers is 65mm for much improved flow characteristics".

So, after talking with The Managing Director of Kleemann, I feel confident that I am purchasing a quality product with a famous name and reputation that will stand behind their products! Finally, after scouring the internet I could only find two (2) reviews on forums where Kleemann's product had failed.......and both of those people said that Kleemann replaced the headers with brand new units. BTW, both of those reviews were several years ago......so I expect that any "kinks" in their manufacturing facilities have been worked through by now.
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#11 Old 05-29-2014
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I am not here to bash Kleeman. I refuse to buy headers that are made in China. I have seen china headers on G35s, Mitsubishi's, Honda's etc... they all crack. First they are not TIG welding, they are MIG welded then gone over a 2nd time in TIG pulse to make it look like TIG welding. The metal isnt stainless.........Stainless steel doesnt rust.
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#12 Old 05-29-2014
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Originally Posted by CLyons0203 View Post
I am not here to bash Kleeman. I refuse to buy headers that are made in China. I have seen china headers on G35s, Mitsubishi's, Honda's etc... they all crack. First they are not TIG welding, they are MIG welded then gone over a 2nd time in TIG pulse to make it look like TIG welding. The metal isnt stainless.........Stainless steel doesnt rust.
I think there's a difference in Top Speed headers that are made in China and Kleemann headers that are made in China. I'm happy with my iPhones that are made in China. I'm all for stuff getting made in the USA. There's also crap that is made in the USA.


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#13 Old 05-31-2014
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Originally Posted by CLyons0203 View Post
Kleeman $1800 - use to be good, production has changed to china
I just confirmed with Kleemann that the SLK55 headers are $995 (10% discount).


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#14 Old 05-31-2014
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I just confirmed with Kleemann that the SLK55 headers are $995 (10% discount).
$hit......I'm paying $1440.00 for mine through the tuner that will be installing them. Should I have contacted them directly for the purchase of them?

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#15 Old 06-12-2014
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#16 Old 06-13-2014
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......I'm paying $1440.00 for mine through the tuner that will be installing them. Should I have contacted them directly for the purchase of them?
Yes... Kleemann advertises this deal on MBWorld. I emailed them and asked about ceramic coating, which takes about 2 weeks and an additional $400. It is done at a local company and they coat the inside and outside of the headers. Not sure if you'll be able to cancel the order but yea, I've learned that buying directly from Kleemann is usually the best idea.


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#17 Old 07-08-2014
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$1k is tempting.

As far as a warranty goes, I had a big block SCJ Mustang back in the day and put a set of Hooker headers on that animal (while not stainless, they supposedly were the top of the line at the time). It wasn't the crack that appeared after 6 months that pissed me off the most. It was the bitch of removing the headers, waiting for the replacement set, and reinstalling them that was the real pain. If you think a 55 is tight under the hood you ain't seen nothing.

I also used to tune two strokes for a living so I also have a fairly decent idea how a four cycle exhaust system works.

I haven't gotten too deep into the variances between brands, but for me installing the log design, while slightly better than OE, is a waste of money and labor for the designs return on investment.

On the tube to collector designs, some have a longer primary tube than others, seemingly for better mid range torque at the expense of high RPM power, one in particular that uses a long tube also has a larger primary diameter in the attempt to bring back the higher RPM power and still retain more midrange torque...

Did the guy at Kleeman mention that most of the tube to collector designs also seem to use the larger collector diameter? I would need to look closer to verify but this is likely the case. That could explain why these companies also want to sell you their entire cat back exhaust kit with their headers. Cha Ching.

And that leads to the million dollar question. Of course there is the CEL issue. What options are out there if the header length (and collector diameter) causes the removal of the OE cat? Would that make a header that uses the OE cat's tube diameter all that bad? How do these folks address the CEL issue?

Typically a good set of headers on a performance oriented N/A motor are worth 8%-10%. On the same motor, a smaller collector size is likely to put you closer to the 8% side of life. Does that mean I'd have to sacrifice a few HP to avoid spending another $4000 to buy someone's complete cat back exhaust system? I might could live with that.

If I was going with a blower where the smaller collector would really be a bottleneck, I might be thinking differently. Anyone have input on this?
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#18 Old 07-09-2014
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I recently slid under my car. I knew the car had an X pipe on it, but looks like the rear cats have been removed too. My exhaust bracket was cracked on both sides near the transmission causing a nasty rattle. If I got long tube headers that removed the main cats, my car would be too loud and smelly. I want some short tube bolt on type header now.
I could send PPE a stock header and tell them to make something like the Black Series header but I dont think pictures would be good enough. A car to mock the headers on would still be needed. If I could get a set of EvoSport(discontinued) or Black Series PPE could copy them.
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Originally Posted by CLyons0203 View Post
I could send PPE a stock header and tell them to make something like the Black Series header but I dont think pictures would be good enough. A car to mock the headers on would still be needed. If I could get a set of EvoSport(discontinued) or Black Series PPE could copy them.
Tube diameter and length is critical on headers. Your right. pictures wouldn't be good enough. The best way would be to get a hold of something proven. But without a car for fitment & testing it's still somewhat of a crap shoot.

Keep me in mind.
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Originally Posted by CLyons0203 View Post
I recently slid under my car. I knew the car had an X pipe on it, but looks like the rear cats have been removed too. My exhaust bracket was cracked on both sides near the transmission causing a nasty rattle. If I got long tube headers that removed the main cats, my car would be too loud and smelly. I want some short tube bolt on type header now.
I could send PPE a stock header and tell them to make something like the Black Series header but I dont think pictures would be good enough. A car to mock the headers on would still be needed. If I could get a set of EvoSport(discontinued) or Black Series PPE could copy them.
If you got long tube headers that removed the main cats, you'd basically have to get (performance) cats and install them in the rear location. It would be the same thing if your stock rear cats were still there.

If sending PPE a stock header is an option, how much would the short tube header cost?

I inquired about BS wheels and surprisingly, part numbers were provided and the instructions were to contact your local dealer to have them order the wheels directly from Affalterbach in Germany. When I asked about any other BS part numbers or availability, they said to contact my local AMG Performance Studio... This is assuming that the entire exhaust system is similar in size between the BS and standard AMG models.


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