How much boost? - Mercedes Benz SLK Forum

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#1 Old 05-26-2010
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How much boost?

Well I finally got off my ass and hooked up the Auto Meter boost gauge thats been chillin in glove box for 2 months now. Works good. My ? is what is the normal boost level for the 03 230? I'm reading between 7 and 8 psi in first gear when I put the pedal to the metal! LMAO! Any of you guys got any real world PSI readings (not what the manual or google says it should be) that you care to share? I just got it hooked up last night and am basing my PSI on what I saw on my way to work. I'm gonna find an empty street and see if I can get more accurate readings. Thanks.
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#2 Old 05-26-2010
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7 to 8 is normal for stock
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#3 Old 05-27-2010
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Hey ELijah,

Do you mind taking a photo, or sharing where you installed the sensor for your boost gauge? A brief DIY?

Do you need to drill in behind the MAF to install? What would you use to seal around it?

Thanks!
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#4 Old 05-27-2010
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Yeah I will take pics in a few min. I hadn't done them yet because I haven't finalized the mounting location so it still looks funky. Gonna finish it this weekend. I just wanted to see if I could make it work. NO LIE, the whole thing took me less than 15 minutes, from running the tube to cutting and fitting the T-adapter. Very simple and very quick. As I've said in other posts you just can't be afraid to cut your baby! LOL.
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#5 Old 05-27-2010
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with an ASP pulley and all my crap.. im around 14psi at the s/c.. and strangely.. 9/10psi at the manifold.. currently in the process to see why so much psi is lost between the 2 locations
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#6 Old 05-27-2010
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Originally Posted by gakz View Post
with an ASP pulley and all my crap.. im around 14psi at the s/c.. and strangely.. 9/10psi at the manifold.. currently in the process to see why so much psi is lost between the 2 locations
Is the 14 psi the pressure before the intercooler and the 9/10 psi the pressure after the intercooler? Cooling the charge will cause some pressure loss and could explain at least part of the pressure decrease.
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#7 Old 05-27-2010
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Originally Posted by gakz View Post
with an ASP pulley and all my crap.. im around 14psi at the s/c.. and strangely.. 9/10psi at the manifold.. currently in the process to see why so much psi is lost between the 2 locations
Yea these are normal numbers. The intercooler will cause the pressure drop. Time to upgrade!
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#8 Old 05-28-2010
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Originally Posted by TVT_design View Post
Yea these are normal numbers. The intercooler will cause the pressure drop. Time to upgrade!
This doesn't seem right. In a constant volume the pressure should go UP slightly not down with added heat as the gas expands. The density of the fuel air charge will go down causing a power drop with temp increase but not the pressure. Only a flow restriction should cause a drop. A 4 pound drop seems to be a lot across the intercooler.
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#9 Old 05-28-2010
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Originally Posted by csa02221862 View Post
This doesn't seem right. In a constant volume the pressure should go UP slightly not down with added heat as the gas expands. The density of the fuel air charge will go down causing a power drop with temp increase but not the pressure. Only a flow restriction should cause a drop. A 4 pound drop seems to be a lot across the intercooler.
Pressure will always drop once it passes through an Air/Air intercooler. Some of the best Air/Air intercoolers are in the 80-90% efficeincy rating and will show less drop. I'm guessing, well I know, that the intercooler gakz is using isn't of the best design. A typical intecooler has 60-75% efficeincy. That would give you the pressure drop right there. Like I said, time to upgrade the intercooler!
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#10 Old 05-28-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csa02221862 View Post
This doesn't seem right. In a constant volume the pressure should go UP slightly not down with added heat as the gas expands. The density of the fuel air charge will go down causing a power drop with temp increase but not the pressure. Only a flow restriction should cause a drop. A 4 pound drop seems to be a lot across the intercooler.
Unless it is broken and not functioning, the intercooler will make the temp drop, not increase. The pressure increase and friction in the supercharger causes the intake air temps to rise, so the max temps in the intakes should be at or near the supercharger outlet. Then there will be a temperature drop as the intake air passes through the intercooler and decreases in temperature. This cooling will cause some pressure decrease, additional pressure decrease will come from and be related to the degree of intake air flow restriction in the intercooler.

I don't know the typical supercharger outlet temp and intercooler outlet temps for a pullied SLK230, but if you know those 2 temps, it is easy to calculate how much of the pressure loss is due to the temp change alone.

Last edited by Santamonica SLK32; 05-28-2010 at 06:51 PM. Reason: typo fix, extra word removed
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#11 Old 05-28-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santamonica SLK32 View Post
Unless it is broken and not functioning, the intercooler will make the temp drop, not increase. The pressure increase and friction in the supercharger causes the intake air temps to rise, so the max temps in the intakes should be at or near the supercharger outlet. Then there will be a temperature drop as the intake air passes through the intercooler and decreases in temperature. This will cooling will cause some pressure decrease, additional pressure decrease will come from and be related to the degree of intake air flow restriction in the intercooler.

I don't know the typical supercharger outlet temp and intercooler outlet temps for a pullied SLK230, but if you know those 2 temps, it is easy to calculate how much of the pressure loss is due to the temp change alone.
I agree comp with this. The pressure change is/should be due to the temp riseing and falling. Any drop as the pressure passes through the intercooler as a result of the restriction should be minimal unless its a poor design.
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#12 Old 06-02-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santamonica SLK32 View Post
Unless it is broken and not functioning, the intercooler will make the temp drop, not increase. The pressure increase and friction in the supercharger causes the intake air temps to rise, so the max temps in the intakes should be at or near the supercharger outlet. Then there will be a temperature drop as the intake air passes through the intercooler and decreases in temperature. This cooling will cause some pressure decrease, additional pressure decrease will come from and be related to the degree of intake air flow restriction in the intercooler.

I don't know the typical supercharger outlet temp and intercooler outlet temps for a pullied SLK230, but if you know those 2 temps, it is easy to calculate how much of the pressure loss is due to the temp change alone.
This is correct!!!!!!!!!

their will always be a pressure drop after the intercooler, and like Anthony said (tvt) depending on how efficient the intercooler is.

The reason the pressure drops is simple physics.... hot air expands, cold air compresses..thus causing a pressure drop. This is the very same reason a airplane needs more speed to take off in hot temperatures..the air molecules are further apart and dont create as much lift, compared to cold air. this is also why you want cold air going into your intake, cold air is compressed and creates a much more dense charge.

this should account for 85-95% change in pressure....but like anthony said, a poor design could account for more, not due to the compression of the air, but due to pressure loss thru poor design.

I.E..with the maf relocation kit from the post 2000 slk the pipe comming out of the intercooler is 2.75 inches ID, then it goes to 2.5ID, then back to 2.75.... this is poor design.

hope this clears it up a bit.
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#13 Old 12-16-2010
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Let me get a couple of things straight.....

This is very interesting as I have just bought my first SLK230 and in Australia we are just coming into summer. Plus I'm keen to check my kompressor intercooler performance with a view to possibly changing the intercooler (plus amg front dam) and maybe a pulley upgrade to a 9" crank.
---------------------------------
First of all - our temps should comply with the universal gas law....

pv = nrt
where in this system n (amount of gas molecules) and r (gas constant) are constants so

pv = xt

so if volume goes down and pressure remains constant then the temp should go up - of course all three are at play here.

Where you say there are restrictions there will be a forced volume decrease and hence a pressure increase and slight temperature rise. In a reasonably designed system, this should only be minimal...say <1psi (6kPag), and can assist your cooler due to a bigger delta T.

[As a "rule of thumb" in process calcs...for air....1kPa approximates to 1deg C so in this case 6kPa = 6degC ...putting that in Imperial units.....1psi = 11degF. So your cooler will work better since the air is slightly warmer.]

Now, negating what the cooler does - you should also get 99% of this T,P,V back (loss to entropy) at the other end of the cooler where there is an expansion back from 2.5 to the 2.75. So the temp should decrease and volume increase.

Now when air moves through pipes and especially heat exchangers like intercoolers, there is the chance of alot of wall>air friction - you gotta keep the air contacting these walls to get the transfer. It is the designers
job to minimise this (keep velocities low) and it usually means the bigger the better for the intercooler. However where we're talking there is limited space (and cost).

If there is more than 1psi (6kPa) drop across the cooler - I'd be suprised. Maybe space is really that much of a restriction. I'd like to do some process/velocity calcs on a stock piping and intercooler. If anyone knows where I can get some intercooler drawings for stock 1997-2004 intercoolers - much appreciated?

Also - cooling the air before it goes into the compressor is another option. Not sure if anyone has done anything here. I'm thinking there wouldnt even have to be a chip change for any of the things mentioned above...(aside from a pully change) as instead of my inlet seeing 40degC it will see 20deg C and the engine management should simply adjust as if it was a cold winters day.

Note - with a 6psi boost that should relate to approx. a 40deg C (70deg temp increase from ambient.
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#14 Old 12-16-2010
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Also I'd like to see your picks (elijahjm101) about the boost sensor install....

As this would be handy for what we're talking about.
3 quick acting thermocouples (temperature sensors) on inlet to komp. outlet of komp. and inlet of manifold (probably already one here) would also be good.
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#15 Old 07-23-2012
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intake pressure and temp

In my car with the ASP pulley (and no other mods), using torque software and the OBD2 port, I get a maximum boost of 22.9 psi intake pressure. I am not sure what it means by intake pressure?

When I display vacuum, I get max boost at 8.2 in/Hg. I'm also not sure what in/Hg is? Most of the time, vacuum is around -25 to -20 in/Hg. Only when I put the boot in, does it get to 8.2 in/Hg.

I assume one measurement is before the supercharger and the other measurement is after the super charger? If someone could explain it to me, that would be great

Intake temps seem to always be about double the air temp, give or take a few degrees C. Eg. if it 13 degrees C outside, then intake temp is around 26 degree C.

I tried do some HP and 0-100 times, but my gear changes were so slow, that I gave up. I just can not bring myself to slamming it into 2nd gear. my slk230 is manual.

Has any one else used torque software and OBD2 port on their slk? I would love to know what the stock figures from torque are?

Cheers
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#16 Old 08-10-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luc256 View Post
In my car with the ASP pulley (and no other mods), using torque software and the OBD2 port, I get a maximum boost of 22.9 psi intake pressure. I am not sure what it means by intake pressure?

When I display vacuum, I get max boost at 8.2 in/Hg. I'm also not sure what in/Hg is? Most of the time, vacuum is around -25 to -20 in/Hg. Only when I put the boot in, does it get to 8.2 in/Hg.

I assume one measurement is before the supercharger and the other measurement is after the super charger? If someone could explain it to me, that would be great

Intake temps seem to always be about double the air temp, give or take a few degrees C. Eg. if it 13 degrees C outside, then intake temp is around 26 degree C.

I tried do some HP and 0-100 times, but my gear changes were so slow, that I gave up. I just can not bring myself to slamming it into 2nd gear. my slk230 is manual.

Has any one else used torque software and OBD2 port on their slk? I would love to know what the stock figures from torque are?

Cheers
Luc
to answer one of your questions is in/hg is inches of mercury, manifold pressure is measured in mercury and hg is the periodic table symbol for it. I had to learn this in flight school :-)
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#17 Old 08-10-2013
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#18 Old 09-16-2013
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Great info

Great info on the SLK supercharger performance, and how to measure & mod. I'll need a dictionary and a few minutes to figure out the math!
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#19 Old 09-16-2013
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Question....Do these systems regulate air pressure boost and keep horsepower constant as you increase in altitude?

Same horsepower at say 6000' as at sea level?

Thanks
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