More BBC (environmental groups) lies? - Mercedes Benz SLK Forum
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#1 Old 01-07-2017
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Thumbs down More BBC (environmental groups) lies?

Saw an item on BBC yesterday stating that deisel powered private cars put out FIVE times as much pollution as a lorry or bus!

Seems to me that my 2l car should not pollute at that rate compared to a 5L lorry or bus and that Mercedes(Who make all three types of vehicle) should employ the same anti pollution measures in all of them?

Also seems to me that the old quote 'There are lies, damned lies, and statistics' may have some truth in it after all
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#2 Old 01-07-2017
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On checking, it would appear this item on the BBC was more or less taken from an item in the Telegraph, which quoted various 'sources' which generally accept that 'everyone knows etc'

Perhaps the same 'everyone knows' that took notice of the questions about the MMR vaccine?
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#3 Old 01-07-2017
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lies, damned lies and statistics. I suspect that what's actually being said is that in terms lbs to pollution private cars may be worse?
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#4 Old 01-07-2017
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Originally Posted by grimree View Post
Saw an item on BBC yesterday stating that deisel powered private cars put out FIVE times as much pollution as a lorry or bus!
It would make sense IF it actually meant, five times as much PER PASSENGER, IF it is fully loaded. That is the whole point of busses.
But you can never tell anything from the news, they lie and/or use incorrect information without any editor that actually knows the subject.
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#5 Old 01-07-2017
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The problem with statistics is that they are meaningless unless the parameters used are disclosed.

The press are jumping on diesel partly out of the VW et al debacle. An easy target.

I do wish that they would present a more useful, positive outlook.
Such as the work to rectify the testing manipulation, reduction in pollutant content of fuels.
Instead, they take the lazy route.
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#6 Old 01-11-2017
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Originally Posted by Pioneer4x4 View Post
But you can never tell anything from the news, they lie and/or use incorrect information without any editor that actually knows the subject.
Journalist's mantra: "Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story" - Mark Twain
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#7 Old 01-11-2017
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Talking of buses

Why is it that my local buses when im behind them i have to close the windows of cars im in and vents as the smell / discharge of yuk they chuck out is immense .

Are they controlled or monitored for pullution by the council or they turn a blind eye to the engine emmisions .

As they sure seem to pollute 20 times more S ... then and taxis it seems .
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#8 Old 01-11-2017
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Yeah BBC and Telegraph making it up as they go along - it's actually 10x the pollution according to the Daily Heil:

Diesel cars produce 10 TIMES more toxic fumes than lorries and buses | Daily Mail Online

But it seems the EU/Government plan to tax owners until their pips squeak. So that's all right.
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#9 Old 01-11-2017
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Wow, that is a horrible article, all it does is repeat the same thing 3 times as an explanation. It makes no sense. And it is all about Oxides of Nitrogen, nothing else. Not total "pollution".
I would like to see the real data that someone spun to make an article that others probably mis-quoted.
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#10 Old 01-11-2017
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#11 Old 01-11-2017
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I doubt a small diesel engine pollutes more than a big one. Lets just look at the fact that diesel fuel in itself is dirty and unrefined like gas so ya they all contribute a GREAT deal to the pollution verses gasoline. Futher more, now that the petroleum industries have every body hooked on the so called economic diesel fuel at the expense of more air pollution, the price of diesel is now just as high if not more than regular gas. Ever get behind a big diesel and find the fumes to be overwhelmingly nauseas, can't stand it. Personally I think that the less diesel fuel burned the better.
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#12 Old 01-11-2017
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Here is the part they are zeroing in on
On average, NOX emissions from diesel cars are more than double those of diesel trucks on a per-kilometer basis, even though CO2 emissions—which are proportional to fuel consumption—for heavy-duty vehicles are five times those of cars. That is, on an engineload basis, heavy-duty diesel vehicles are roughly ten times better than light-duty diesels at reducing NOX emissions. This indicates that tailpipe NOX emissions have been essentially decoupled from CO2 emissions, so that increases in CO2 emissions—that is, in fuel consumption—do not necessarily produce an increase in NOX emissions. (Heavyduty vehicles are typically driven further every year than light-duty vehicles, so this data does not imply anything about total annual emissions per vehicle type.)
Now to sum up, Trucks put out 5 times as much C02, but ˝ as much NOX, so they have 10 times better ratio of C02 - NOX, and you can interpret that how you like. And skimming the article, some newer cars, even the evil VW/Audi put out much lower than trucks NOX per KM.
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#13 Old 01-11-2017
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I think COx are preferable to NOx, from an environmental perspective at least...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx#Environmental_effects
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#14 Old 02-26-2017
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sorry to say but they were talking about this on the telly today and they were saying its the end of diesel cars now.
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#15 Old 02-26-2017
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Too much information for this old brain so
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#16 Old 02-27-2017
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Can we in Western Europe now sue our governments for (nearly) forcing us to buy diesels which are now
A - environmentally unfriendly
B - depreciating rather more swiftly than is ideal :-(
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#17 Old 02-27-2017
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Well looks like Diesels is becoming a Dirty word now !

I wonder how long before the media / govt put out the word before the price of diesel cars start to plummet in price ?

Towns start charging for dirty cars to drive through like London charge of circa Ł20.00 ?

Id imagine a huge investment in the motor industry to get even more economy / mpg out of petrol cars now and to push through more in to Electric cars as thats the new way forward .

And i see there stock piling Cobalt now for the future .
Good old banks they know what to invest in in the future .
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#18 Old 02-27-2017
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Following two small, family car diesels today, belching better than a bus.


With all the runs and meets I have been around plenty of D SLKs.
None smoked.


Smoke is not an indicator of NOx emission, but is a particulate indicator.
It is an indicator of maintenance and car of the vehicle.


If other Ds took as much care of the vehicle as SLKers much of the chatter would go away.
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#19 Old 02-27-2017
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The issue is tailpipe NOx emissions. Trucks typically have de-NOx after treatment systems, e.g. Selective catalytic reduction or SCR whereby AddBlue (Urea) is injected into the exhaust stream that then reacts over a catalyst to minimise the emitted NOx. In the U.K., there is no requirement to fit such systems to passenger cars and they can pass the current emissions regulations without them being fitted.

BTW - Gasoline cars have de-NOx after treatment in the form of a 3-way catalyst, which works because of different exhaust gas chemistry (compared to diesel exhaust).

So, if a truck with de-NOx after treatment produces ultra low emissions, say 10mg/km of NOx, where a passenger car without after treatment produces 100mg/km (still a very low level of emissions), the car produces 10x the emission level. If the truck produced 1mg/km, the same car would be deemed to be 100x more polluting, which is a great headline but doesn't mean diesel cars suddenly became worse polluters. So to some extent, this is a bit of a crock! Current diesel vehicles are massively cleaner than those of 10-20 years ago.

IMHO, there is big politics behind this in so far as there is a political desire to increase the uptake of electric cars (which really only make sense in cities in my view) to improve local air quality. However, the budget required to provide the infrastructure (charging points, power stations etc..) would detract from other big programmes like health, defence, education, public transport and so on. So at the moment when the transport minister is trying to get funds to put in charging points and stuf for electric cars, everyone else around the table says 'Who for? There are only a couple of dozen electric cars on the road! Meanwhile, we need more money for hospitals, tanks, schools etc...' Transport guy doesn't get a penny.

In addition, there is a lot of pressure on the middle distillate materials that are used to make diesel, so lighter materials that would otherwise go to making gasoline have to be processed into diesel.

So, by making diesel cars the bad technology, gets folks in the country side to go gasoline, the folks in the city get charged a fortune to have diesel so want to go electric. Demand for gasoline goes up (well demand for diesel falls), demand for electric vehicles goes up. More money for power stations etc. etc.

It's a proper wind up. What should have happened is that all passenger cars should be fitted with de-NOx systems in order to be compliant with prevailing regulations. Nevertheless, the over demand on middle distillates is an issue because it also competes with aviation (jet) fuel/kerosene. So weening us off diesel is inevitable, it's just a shame that the modern Diesel engine is so good.
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