Grand Prix - Mercedes Benz SLK Forum

Off Topic Anything but SLK talk. Please Note that religious and political discussions are not allowed....

 13Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
#1 Old 07-22-2012
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,812
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 681
Thanked 961 Times in 704 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Grand Prix

Vettel was out of order and should lose that second place
JonB is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 07-22-2012
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,812
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 681
Thanked 961 Times in 704 Posts
(Thread Starter)
stewards gave him a 20 second penalty dropped to 5th
JonB is offline  
#3 Old 07-22-2012
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Indy
Posts: 2,421
Country:
Chats: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Thanks: 118
Thanked 290 Times in 244 Posts
Great race for 'lonzo & Ferrari and Button. McL has been struggling(hehe), but looked on their game today. Vettel made a mistake and paid the price, although I'm not sure why it's a 20 sec. penalty. Why not just give the spot back to Button. Now, if it had happened earlier in the race, like the first 1/2, then do the penalty, drive through or time, but rules are rules. Just my $.02.

Hungary next week, and NOT on FOX here...

"Think as I think," said a man,"Or you are abominably wicked; You are a toad."
And after I had thought about it, I said,
"I will, then, be a toad."(Thank you, Steven Crane)

Think outside the box!
Galo is offline  
#4 Old 07-22-2012
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,812
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 681
Thanked 961 Times in 704 Posts
(Thread Starter)
according to what was said. That was the only penalty they could set after the race was over. As you say had it been earlier he would have had a drive through. Also he planned that move. He had consistently used that run off in previous laps. The rules are quite clear and he knew that. He overtook with all four wheels off the track. He was stupid. Not only could he have caused a crash he would have at least got a third.
JonB is offline  
#5 Old 07-22-2012
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Indy
Posts: 2,421
Country:
Chats: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Thanks: 118
Thanked 290 Times in 244 Posts
I understand the rule, but, this late in the race why not just order him to give back the position. If he doesn't, then give penalty. This happens frequently on those stupid chicanes; one driver cuts it, then gives the position back. I say put up real curbs and force them stay on the actual track surface or break the car.

Oh well, again, a mistake that cost him some points.

"Think as I think," said a man,"Or you are abominably wicked; You are a toad."
And after I had thought about it, I said,
"I will, then, be a toad."(Thank you, Steven Crane)

Think outside the box!
Galo is offline  
#6 Old 07-23-2012
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North of Scotland
Vehicle: 2009 SLK 280 7Gtronic
Other Toys: 2012 VW Touareg 3.0 TDI, Aerospatiale AS332L2 and EC225
Posts: 766
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Thanks: 145
Thanked 140 Times in 109 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galo View Post
I understand the rule, but, this late in the race why not just order him to give back the position. If he doesn't, then give penalty. This happens frequently on those stupid chicanes; one driver cuts it, then gives the position back. I say put up real curbs and force them stay on the actual track surface or break the car.

Oh well, again, a mistake that cost him some points.

If he HAD given back the place voluntarily then all would have been well and no further penalty would have been applied. (Button did that recently when he straightlined a chicane and overtoook Massa, letting him back past immediately).

There is no penalty of just swapping the positions, or just 5 seconds which would have fit the bill here, the minimum penalty being a drive through. This could not be applied since the race was over, so he was awarded the equivalent time for a drive through...

Fittingly, there is some punitive element in the post race penalty, if Vettel had thought about it he could have reversed the positions and saved third place, but he didn't and went on, I believe, to make matters worse by arguing his spurious reasons for using that part (or non part) of the track, thereby earning his punishment and 5th place.
GeeJay, Galo and JonB like this.
filgreen is offline  
#7 Old 07-23-2012
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,812
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 681
Thanked 961 Times in 704 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galo View Post
I understand the rule, but, this late in the race why not just order him to give back the position. If he doesn't, then give penalty. This happens frequently on those stupid chicanes; one driver cuts it, then gives the position back. I say put up real curbs and force them stay on the actual track surface or break the car.

Oh well, again, a mistake that cost him some points.
It wasnt on a chicane. He deliberately out braked button knowing he could use the outrun to get round the outside. It was a gross breach of the rules and he and his team knew it.
JonB is offline  
#8 Old 07-23-2012
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North of Scotland
Vehicle: 2009 SLK 280 7Gtronic
Other Toys: 2012 VW Touareg 3.0 TDI, Aerospatiale AS332L2 and EC225
Posts: 766
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Thanks: 145
Thanked 140 Times in 109 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galo View Post
This happens frequently on those stupid chicanes; one driver cuts it, then gives the position back. I say put up real curbs and force them stay on the actual track surface or break the car.

If they built your car breaking kerbs, then very few cars would finish the race, the majority of off track excursions are the result of mistakes by the driver.

Remember the bad old days when only a few cars finished the race due to cars being stranded in gravel traps or because of poor reliability?

The circuits have replaced a lot of gravel trap run offs with tarmac in order to improve the number of finishers, there is an inherent time penalty whenever a driver goes off track into one of these areas but is able to continue the race. This wouldn't happen if the area was gravel or was bounded by a car breaking kerb. In this case Vettel profited unfairly by overtaking on a part of the circuit that is not "track"(outside the white lines") but survived and should have given the place back. Hence the penalty.

Actually having seen it played back in slo-mo many times during the post race program, I think it was a very deliberate act on his part as you can clearly see him turn towards the run off to complete the move.
JonB likes this.
filgreen is offline  
#9 Old 07-23-2012
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,812
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 681
Thanked 961 Times in 704 Posts
(Thread Starter)
They commented on him using the same run off area several times in the closing laps and said if he doesnt watch it he will get penalised for it. I think he was testing the grip and planned to do it on the last lap
JonB is offline  
#10 Old 07-23-2012
Sadly Gregg has passed away

 
Gregg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southern Illinois
Vehicle: 2009 SLK 350
Other Toys: 2012 ML350, Truck, and Tractor
Posts: 2,432
Country:
Chats: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Thanks: 1,406
Thanked 458 Times in 279 Posts
Garage
Galo....practice, qualifying, and the race will be on SPEED Channel....already set my DVR. Wonder why FOX has bagged on this one?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Gregg is offline  
#11 Old 07-23-2012
Registered Users
 
GeeJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North-West Blighty.....
Vehicle: '16 C250d AMG Estate Premium+ Designo Hyacinth Metalic
Other Toys: Guitars... :-) Formerly '08 SLK200 6sp Palladium
Posts: 5,134
Country:
Chats: 91
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Thanks: 652
Thanked 793 Times in 574 Posts
Vettel definately deserved the 20s penalty, though someone at work said at Hockenhiem a drive through would be more like 17s.. His excuse that he didn't see Jenson was twaddle. He also denied that he knew the incident was being investigated, when Button could be heard telling him when they took their helmets off.

There are three words that Vettel uses to begin a sentance, which are a major clue that the rest of the sentance is bollocks, i.e. "To be honest....." He shouldn't use words he doesn't understand. It's a shame really, because when I spoke to him last year (gratuitous name-drop opportunity ), I got the impression that he's a pretty decent guy. I guess he can hardly say 'It's a fair cop gov, I screwed up', but it would be refreshing.

I haven't seen Button's telemetry, but I wouldn't be surprised if he had to lift slightly to allow Vettel to come back onto the circuit.

Bottom line, Vettel is intelligent enough to understand that sort of move is not allowed. He had the quicker car at that part of the race and should have let Button back through and then lobbed one up the inside at the next corner or settled for 3rd. He basically rolled the dice with the stewards and lost out...

My former boss is German, he was less than amused when I spoke to hime this morning...
Galo and JonB like this.
GeeJay is offline  
#12 Old 07-23-2012
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Indy
Posts: 2,421
Country:
Chats: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Thanks: 118
Thanked 290 Times in 244 Posts
Gentlemen, I know it wasn't a chicane and I know real curbs would break the cars. That's the point; stay on the true racing surface or break the car. The extra pavement these tracks have coming out of corners(i.e. Champions Wall in Montreal) These drivers need to learn how to keep their cars on_the_track; if they can't or don't know how, break the car...maybe they'll learn. Vettel's move is just as stupid as Hamilton's was when he had contact with Maldonaldo.
Yes, IF Vettel had given the spot back there would have been no penalty, and YES, his "To be honest..." is a little old now

To be sure, I'm NOT unhappy he was penalized as I am a Ferrari/Alonso fan, and this takes points away from Vettel and gives 'lonzo more of a cushion (<- 'lonzo's old victory dance)

Gregg, I know this is FOX's last GP this year, and I'm SOOOO glad. I'm just glad they use the SPEED regulars to do the commentating.

Enjoy, gentlemen

"Think as I think," said a man,"Or you are abominably wicked; You are a toad."
And after I had thought about it, I said,
"I will, then, be a toad."(Thank you, Steven Crane)

Think outside the box!
Galo is offline  
#13 Old 07-24-2012
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North of Scotland
Vehicle: 2009 SLK 280 7Gtronic
Other Toys: 2012 VW Touareg 3.0 TDI, Aerospatiale AS332L2 and EC225
Posts: 766
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Thanks: 145
Thanked 140 Times in 109 Posts
[QUOTE=Galo;321927]

Gregg, I know this is FOX's last GP this year, and I'm SOOOO glad. I'm just glad they use the SPEED regulars to do the commentating.

/QUOTE]


That begs the question for me: why does the channel/team that cover motor sport series on US TV change throughout the season.

I am an avid follower of US Motorsport and have been surprised to find at times that part way through a season the coverage has changed dramatically, not always for the better. For instance, I find the team that includes Darrell Waltrip for the Nascar coverage far better than the alternatives. Anyone?
filgreen is offline  
#14 Old 07-24-2012
Registered Users
 
GeeJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North-West Blighty.....
Vehicle: '16 C250d AMG Estate Premium+ Designo Hyacinth Metalic
Other Toys: Guitars... :-) Formerly '08 SLK200 6sp Palladium
Posts: 5,134
Country:
Chats: 91
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Thanks: 652
Thanked 793 Times in 574 Posts
Real kerbs and broken cars vs run-off and racing..

My view is:
We don't want real kerbs and broken cars, because all that will happen is there will be even less overtaking than there is now. The risk of damage will outweigh any potential benefit of taking a dive round the outside. The car in front will just park on the apex and every one behond will have to form an orderly queue.

I want to see Vettel et al late braking and lobbing the car up the inside, round the outside to try to overtake, without the risk of breaking the car if they get it wrong. That's racing and allows them to really push without loads of debris on the track or drivers getting injured. Cars don't stop very well with the wheels smashed off.

What Vettel should now understand is that going off the track is saving his car and backside, so that he can try again to get by that pesky car in front (not a problem he has had to deal with all that often)...

2 cents...
GeeJay is offline  
#15 Old 07-24-2012
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,812
Country:
Chats: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 681
Thanked 961 Times in 704 Posts
(Thread Starter)
They all stretch the rules. Red Bull were investigated before the race over mapping. But were given the benefit of the doubt. But rules is rules. Break em and get caught then dont cry about it. If you cant do the time. Dont do the crime
JonB is offline  
#16 Old 07-24-2012
Long Time Member

 
frogfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Vehicle: 2005 slk
Posts: 3,614
Country:
Chats: 1
Mentioned: 161 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Thanks: 1,770
Thanked 914 Times in 456 Posts
Garage
Seb had the faster car at the time so i feel he should of waited till the next lap and positoned his car for a easy overtake and we would not be talking about it.

as for the penalty i think 2nd and 3rd should of changed places as never in a million years was kimmi going to catch and pass seb or jb.

however i dont make the rules if i did Pastor would be taking his driving test again
GeeJay and JonB like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Designo 6speedMT 350........My weekend , Holiday Transport since 2008
frogfoot is offline  
#17 Old 07-24-2012
Registered Users
 
GeeJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North-West Blighty.....
Vehicle: '16 C250d AMG Estate Premium+ Designo Hyacinth Metalic
Other Toys: Guitars... :-) Formerly '08 SLK200 6sp Palladium
Posts: 5,134
Country:
Chats: 91
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Thanks: 652
Thanked 793 Times in 574 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogfoot View Post
Seb had the faster car at the time so i feel he should of waited till the next lap and positoned his car for a easy overtake and we would not be talking about it.

as for the penalty i think 2nd and 3rd should of changed places as never in a million years was kimmi going to catch and pass seb or jb.

however i dont make the rules if i did Pastor would be taking his driving test again
I agree except for your comment on the penalty. Simply swapping 2nd & 3rd would have been no penalty at all. Seb had it in his own hands to make that deal and he passed on it (pun intended). Had it happened earlier in the race, he would have received a drive-through penalty which is pretty much what he got. Just deserts in my opinion. I actually thought the stewards were going to bottle it and let him off..
JonB likes this.
GeeJay is offline  
#18 Old 07-24-2012
Long Time Member

 
frogfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Vehicle: 2005 slk
Posts: 3,614
Country:
Chats: 1
Mentioned: 161 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Thanks: 1,770
Thanked 914 Times in 456 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeJay View Post
I agree except for your comment on the penalty. Simply swapping 2nd & 3rd would have been no penalty at all. Seb had it in his own hands to make that deal and he passed on it (pun intended). Had it happened earlier in the race, he would have received a drive-through penalty which is pretty much what he got. Just deserts in my opinion. I actually thought the stewards were going to bottle it and let him off..
Am not sure Glen in my book swaping 2nd and 3rd around is a penalty.

if you get to the end of the season and seb lost the championship by a point would you say that the swap around was a penalty then?

Saying that something else will happen b4 the end of the season and these things have a habbit of working themselves out

Take Hammy he is just working out how much harder it is to keep one woman happy , than ten in a hotel bedroom !!!!!
GeeJay and JonB like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Designo 6speedMT 350........My weekend , Holiday Transport since 2008
frogfoot is offline  
#19 Old 07-24-2012
Registered Users
 
GeeJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North-West Blighty.....
Vehicle: '16 C250d AMG Estate Premium+ Designo Hyacinth Metalic
Other Toys: Guitars... :-) Formerly '08 SLK200 6sp Palladium
Posts: 5,134
Country:
Chats: 91
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Thanks: 652
Thanked 793 Times in 574 Posts
Fair enough it would be dull if we agreed all the time, though as a final thought; If being put back to the position he was in before the illegal overtake was the worst that could happen, Seb had nothing to lose by going for an illegal overtake. That would set a precendent so that he and anyone else would also be able to do it again and again without really losing out. It's basically unfair on the person in front and potentially very dangerous. That said you're right if that one decision costs him the season, it's a tough one. Maybe he should stay on the circuit.

As for Lewis, it won't be the first time a man's hopes and aspirations were dashed by a little piece of burst rubber...
frogfoot and JonB like this.
GeeJay is offline  
#20 Old 07-24-2012
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Indy
Posts: 2,421
Country:
Chats: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Thanks: 118
Thanked 290 Times in 244 Posts
[quote=filgreen;322003]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galo View Post

Gregg, I know this is FOX's last GP this year, and I'm SOOOO glad. I'm just glad they use the SPEED regulars to do the commentating.

/QUOTE]


That begs the question for me: why does the channel/team that cover motor sport series on US TV change throughout the season.

I am an avid follower of US Motorsport and have been surprised to find at times that part way through a season the coverage has changed dramatically, not always for the better. For instance, I find the team that includes Darrell Waltrip for the Nascar coverage far better than the alternatives. Anyone?
FOX owns SPEED...'nuff said Yes, it is troublesome but at least FOX uses Varsha/Hobbs/Matchett. I think they, FOX, are trying to get the non-F1 fan interested by showing "their" races at noon.

As far as Waltrip goes, he's a jerk, imo. He was interviewing Christian Fittipaldi years ago called open wheel cars "go-karts"...what an idiot...again, imo...

"Think as I think," said a man,"Or you are abominably wicked; You are a toad."
And after I had thought about it, I said,
"I will, then, be a toad."(Thank you, Steven Crane)

Think outside the box!
Galo is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Galo For This Useful Post:
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mercedes Benz SLK Forum > General Discussion about Mercedes Benz SLKs > Off Topic

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Upload your files to MEGAUPLOAD
Upload your images to ImageShack

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes Benz SLK Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
 

Clubs, Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.