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rear window controls R170

24K views 121 replies 15 participants last post by  latemodel21 
#1 ·
Last month, I bought a higher mileage 170R (2000 SLK230) basically "sight unseen" with the understanding that the pristine paint and body in some emailed images and short video from the previous owner that it represented what was described as "needs nothing" condition. I traveled over a day to the seller's location in southern Ontario and decided to trailer the car back home because of the possibility of a late spring snow or ice storm. During the inspection, the car seemed to run fine and I assumed that as the car "needed nothing" , I foolishly didn't take any extra time to check some of what I later learned are usual gremlins for these cars. In hindsight I still would have bought the car but missed a negotiating opportunity.



Having said that, I am somewhat mechanically inclined and have always worked on my own vehicles up to and including engine rebuilds/swaps, transmission swaps, front end rebuilds, brakes, bearings, electrical, etc. I had a feeling there might be a few things that would need some tinkering before the nice weather arrived and the car was ready for any top down cruising.

... and, as my previous convertible was a Harley Davidson Electraglide, I was somewhat used to getting my hands dirty on the weekends.:wink:

When I got the car home, I immediately noticed the roof didn't want to open at all. Slow blinking red control switch, etc. After doing some reading here within these forums ( many thanks to all those who traveled these hallowed roads before me ) I was able to get the roof to open after (#1. Replacing a missing fuse for the hydraulic pump, #2. Top up the hydraulic reservoir with the requisite fluid, #3. Fabricate and install a donut shaped bushing/spacer on the plastic pin for the trunk open switch S69/12 - so that the right side of the tubular frame would actually make contact with the switch enough to close the contacts and start the second phase of the roof opening sequence.


The diagnosis took several hours of watching the frame and cylinders opening and closing the trunk lid along with extra amounts of reading sprinkled throughout.


When I finally got the car to the point where I could open and close the roof , I started making adjustments and shimming the various components to remove the thuds and clunks mostly from the trunk lid closing and opening.



I learned ( NOT EARLY ENOUGH ) that critical to the whole sequence are the proper folding of the hat shelf wings both when the roof opens and when it closes. I ended up bending the hat shelf brackets enough that the roof started catching the back edge of the hat shelf as it tried to lower into the trunk. Again thanks to another thread, I was able to disassemble and straighten those brackets and get the roof working again but what about the darned quarter windows that were stuck in a full up position. The wings of the hat shelf were always in danger of being re-bent unless I stopped the closing sequence at precisely the right moment then coaxed them to the inboard side of the glass before continuing to the fully closed and locked position.


I started reading some threads about the window opening issues ( cable off pulley , window stuck in down position after opening etc ) . I did some more poking around and after peeking behind the panels covering the interior behind both seats, could see the disconnected connectors for both rear window regulator motors.

Aha - a previous owner must have also experienced a failure for those windows to raise during a roof closure - had a mechanic raise the windows with a pair of jumpers and battery then left the motors disconnected so the windows would not lower back into their hiding spot again ! :Beer:

After a lot more reading and searching for a solution, it occurred to me that somebody else must've found an easy way to control those windows separate from the logic written into the vario roof controller.



Notwithstanding the solution that appears to have gone AWOL here http://www.slkworld.com/general-modifications-r170/18401-rear-windows-control.html



this is my simple approach/fix to the issue.



View attachment 510258


*Disconnect Battery*

In the engine compartment next to the battery is a sealed plastic box. Remove four torx head screws and gasket lid to reveal several electronic components including the N10-3 Multifunction Controller. Locate the Black/Violet stripe wire , Green/Violet stripe wire. Next locate the Black/Blue stripe and Green/Blue stripe wire as pointed out in the photo.





Next step is to cut the wires and cap the exposed ends on the controller side ( I used black tape ) and splice suitable size/gauge wire at least 7 ft length on the side of the wires disappearing below the box. I used butt connectors and a spool of trailer wiring I had on hand as it would be important to identify the unique colours later on. Any size of wire capable of handling 12 volts at 10 amps would be more than sufficient. The suspect the OEM fuse is 20 amps because both rear windows are operated simultaneously when controlled by N10-3.


Route the new wires along the firewall and find a suitable entry point into the driver/passenger compartment through an existing grommet or drill a new hole. ( I gave up looking for an existing entry point after two hours searching and drilled a new 7/16" hole through the firewall about 5 inches left of the brake booster near the tunnel for the steering shaft ) There is not much room for an electric drill with a standard length bit anywhere near this area. Be very cautious - I removed the lower plastics for the driver's dash area below the steering wheel and studied where a sharp drill bit entering the enclosed area was least likely to damage anything including wiring harnesses ,AC/heater lines, etc before I proceeded.






The next step is to find a good source of power to operate the windows. I chose to tap into the heaviest red wire supplying constant 12V to the light switch just beside the instrument panel fuse cover. There are also several large screws that mount the instrument panel to the body nearby. I used one screw for a ground wire. I also added a 20 amp fuse and holder to the power wire. You need to divide the power to run to two separate 5 pin power window style switches. The 5 pin switches I purchased for roughly $6 each required spade type connectors to be crimped on the wires ( you can also use 6 pin but any switch less than 5 pins will not work for reversing polarity )... generally center pin or pin #3 on each switch


The ground needs to run to 2 locations on each switch so however you do that is your choice but generally Pin 2 and 4 using spade connectors.


The pairs of wires you ran through the firewall from N10-3 need to be connected as pairs to the respective switch for the window your are attempting to control. But generally green/blue and blk/blu to Pins #1 and #5 on one switch ( or whatever colour they are now ) to control the passenger side rear window and blk/vio, grn/vio to Pins #1 and #5 of another switch to control the driver rear window

With this style of switch if the operation of the window is backward from the desired push (up or down), you can either flip the switch upside down and mount it back into the dash or swap wires at #1 and #5 position to achieve same result

** Reconnect battery , and/or install fuse **



Completed installation of switches. Windows now go up and down , part distance or full distance any time I choose. This now makes opening and closing the roof much easier. :smile: Sorry about the appearance of the dash. My next job is to address all the nicks and blemishes from years of abuse by the previous owners. If anybody knows a good place to get the beige coloured dash (interior) paint that is pictured here, I would appreciate a PM
 

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#5 ·
Cautions

If you are considering this modification, experience dictates the importance of the following four points to prevent damage to expensive electrical components



#1 ) Always disconnect battery before cutting any wires. Especially those wires connected to a PCM, BCM , MFC, etc.


#2 ) Never cut wires in pairs or groups. Cut one at a time and take care not to touch tool to a ground during the cut.


#3 ) New wires running through fresh body openings (ie; holes through a firewall) should have grommets or at very least, silicone type sealant in hole to prevent future shafing and accidental shorting of the wires on the sharp edges within the metal hole


#4 ) Always use fuses for any new circuit.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I've always just wanted to simply be able to have the rear windows up with the roof lowered and the reverse, the rear windows lowered with the roof raised. Back in September of last Year I had paid another member to make for myself a more elaborate device that allowed remote control of roof functions and other features, including that independent control of the rears. I have still not received that device.
I am interested in what you have done, because it would at least allow myself to enjoy using my SLK as I always have wanted to do.
I do have some concerns, though, and that is the risk of potential damage if the rear windows were in an incorrect position when the roof open/close sequence is initialised? I can see that with the mods outlined in this thread, it is possible to control those windows with the installed switches, but I'm still worried about roof operation?
So could you give me further information, please?
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I am editing this post because I want to add a further question. This is it :-
Why would you want to control each rear window independently? Surely you only need them to be controlled in tandem? If this is indeed the case, then only one control switch would be required and the two wires coming from the control box could be combined?
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'll look forward to your reply .........

David
 
#8 ·
Hi David

Yes , you are absolutely correct. I suppose there is no real good reason not to have both rear windows work in tandem and you could get away with controlling both windows with one switch.
As for the question about potential damage if they were in the wrong position during roof operation. That is exactly why I modified the wiring as in my situation the windows had been disconnected in the "always up" position and interfered with both the opening and closing of the roof when the wings of the hat shelf came into contact with the quarter windows.

They must be in the down position for both opening or closing of the roof. Prior to the mod, I would need to kneel rearward on my driver seat and stop the roof opening or closing just before those hat shelf wings made contact with the rear windows, then gently coax them by inboard or outboard before continuing with the rest of the sequence.

Life is so much better now as long as I am ever mindful to retract those little windows each time I open or close.
 
#7 ·
Caution

I actually made a thread about controlling these. The thing that I did though was create a button that would activate relays so that the front and rear windows would work in tandem. Why? If you forget to lower the rear windows before putting the roof back on, you could damage them. They are pretty flimsy on their own and use the roof channel for support. If at any point they become misaligned... not good. With my method, they will always be lowered because even when using the front window circuit, the front windows are lowered by the module as well. Therefore, whether the windows are controlled by front switches or module, they will always be lowered. Just food for thought.
 
#9 ·
I actually made a thread about controlling these. The thing that I did though was create a button that would activate relays so that the front and rear windows would work in tandem. Why? If you forget to lower the rear windows before putting the roof back on, you could damage them. They are pretty flimsy on their own and use the roof channel for support. If at any point they become misaligned... not good. With my method, they will always be lowered because even when using the front window circuit, the front windows are lowered by the module as well. Therefore, whether the windows are controlled by front switches or module, they will always be lowered. Just food for thought.
That would also work, however a secondary reason is that I can open or close either window an inch or two or full way with the roof closed and both main windows full up to allow for a little air flow throughout the cabin if the weather dictates.

I have also found there is less draft on our necks on the cooler top down days if the quarter windows are combined with the door windows. The appearance (although not a major consideration) is also more aesthetically pleasing to the eye when the quarter windows are combined with the door windows IMO :smile:
 
#10 ·

Thanks for the heads up on the broken link.
I've left a note in that thread & also added a link to this thread in the first post.


Thanks for your help. :tu:
 
#18 ·
I don't think so. I'm not aware of any sensors or microswitches in the rear quarter window wiring to communicate that sort of information to the MFC. As explained by others and from what I read the N10-3 controlled simply activates the up/down circuit for 3 seconds. If the window fails to move the roof continues to open or close normally until you release the button
 
#12 ·
Right, I can see in this thread how I could make connections so that using just one switch, I could raise or lower both of the rear windows in tandem. GREAT! So what I now need is some way to ensure that, if I was to press the roof operation button, it would go through it's full sequence and ensure that those rear windows are in the lowered position. Now, say, that the rear windows were ALREADY in the lowered position, then this would not cause any problems with the roof lift/lower action. As I get (inevitably) older, I do find it a bit more difficult to fully understand what is being said in these threads. That's why I'm SO appreciative when it can be made easy for myself to "get-to-grips" with the project in hand!
So, just to recap, I'd like to be able to control the rears, in tandem, at any time. When the roof is to be lowered or raised, then regardless of where the rears are positioned, pressing the operation button will initialise the sequence that ensures that the rears will be lowered and therefore with no risk of damage.
Summer seems to be here and I'd just LOVE to have greater control of the rear windows whilst enjoying using my SLK!

David
 
#13 ·
Yes, I too can have all windows up, down, or a bit open. Also, do not worry about module. It does not know where the windows are at. It simply sends the rears the desired direction of voltage for a specific amount of time (like 3 seconds). As mentioned, my setup has the windows sharing power with the fronts. No issues.
 
#14 ·
Now, AGAIN, excuse my ignorance, but the instigator of this thread "SgtMyagi" seemed to have cut the wires normally controlling the rears during the roof operating sequence(s) and then fed an independent power supply, via a switch, to allow independent control of them? Am I correct in that? SO, there is no longer any control of them via the normal roof lowering/raising sequence? I had wanted there to be some way that that sequence was still effective, thus ensuring that the rear windows could not have been accidentally left in an inappropriate location.
"1978L82"? I do seem to recall yourself being part of quite a long thread regarding this topic? That was what had sparked my interest in this and has led to my long, long, wait to receive from another Member a device that not only controls these windows, but allows a wide range of roof operations remotely from the fob. In the mean-time, if through my own efforts and with this club's help I can get control of the rear windows, then I'll be happy!

David
 
#15 ·
Yes. You are right David. There is now no control of the windows via the factory multifunction controller (N10-3). As explained earlier in this thread, any number of errors in the system logic can prevent the rear windows from raising or lowering (ie; a defective microswitch) after the vario roof is opened or closed. So once the wires are severed using the mod, you must lower or raise the windows manually.

Also, I should mention I considered removing the carpet to search out the blk/vio, grn/vio, blk/blu, grn/blu wires that must run under there somewhere to the rear windows, rather than cut them right near the N10-3 module. This would have saved having to drill a hole through the firewall but removing the carpet looked like a job I didn't really want to tackle. I suppose if somebody knew the exact location those wires are routed through the firewall in the first place ( near the passenger footwell ????? ) They could tidy this modification up a bit and eliminate the new hole through the firewall

Now to address the question about leaving the factory controller intact and adding this modification to supplement the operation of the windows manually when desired. I do believe that is a possibility. One could use wire taps instead of actually cutting the factory wires. Because the new circuits are normally open, this should have no effect on the N10-3 opening or closing the rear windows but would give you the option to raise or lower the windows as desired whenever you want.
 
#16 ·
adding this modification to supplement the operation of the windows manually when desired. I do believe that is a possibility. One could use wire taps instead of actually cutting the factory wires. Because the new circuits are normally open, this should have no effect on the N10-3 opening or closing the rear windows but would give you the option to raise or lower the windows as desired whenever you want.
Yes, that was exactly what I was wanting to do! So I wonder if you might be able to do this for myself? Do you know those wires that you had cut, coming out of the control box? You simply capped them off, didn't you? Well, if you just remove the capping and re-connect into your new circuit, then you should have both manual control and full sequential operation of the roof lowering/raising program?. Is that not the case? So this would be the next "experiment" ...... manually lower the rear windows with the roof raised and and press the main roof-control switch to start the lowering sequence. Observe what then happens and be ready to hit the stop switch if there is any motor strain or conflict in the normal sequence of operations. Now have the roof in the lowered position, but with both the rear and main windows raised. Again, press the roof-control switch to initialise the roof-raising sequence. As before, observe what now happens and be ready to quickly halt the process if there are any perceived problems.
It would be so helpful if you are able to perform these tasks for myself ..... and I think that you should benefit yourself, too? It should be easier for you to do this, because you already have everything else in place. It would be just a matter of removing those cappings and adding the wires back into circuit?
This could prove to be the perfect modification, with both rear windows operating in unison and controlled by a single switch. The standard roof control would be retained, leading to safe and reliable operation. I hope that you are able to help, here .... Thanks!

David

David
 
#17 ·
OK. I may get a chance to try that sometime this week however, what I am likely to encounter is exactly the same issue that a previous owner must have experienced before disconnecting the rear window motors by pulling out the connectors.

My front windows (still connected) retract into the doors normally during the opening sequence but "stay" down in the closing sequence. I need to use the manual front window switches to roll the windows up. No biggy.

This is possibly due to one or more of the microswitches failing to close entirely or some other error. Who knows?

I would bet money that the rear windows will behave the same way and retract but fail to raise without using the new switches just installed.

I will send you a message once I have tried it.
 
#19 ·
OK. I may get a chance to try that sometime this week however, what I am likely to encounter is exactly the same issue that a previous owner must have experienced before disconnecting the rear window motors by pulling out the connectors.


I will send you a message once I have tried it.
Yes, stupid of me! You installed the manual control of the rears for the obvious reason that you were experiencing problems with their operation during the roof sequences! So if you re-connect, as I have suggested, the problems will just re-appear again! It looks like the way to check-out my ideas is to simply do them myself! I've got nothing to lose .... I'll get stuck-in, soon. Oh, I looked for the box that you described at the start of your thread. This is the box that is accessed to cut the feed to the rear windows. Its location didn't seem to be very obvious to myself? I wonder if you could show a photo that makes it clearer? I recently installed liquid LPG injection equipment on my SLK. I had to find a permanent live and ignition live. I also found an easy route through the fire-wall. I've also exposed the rear windows' mechanism fully in the past, because the feed-wire on one of them had jumped a pulley. All the wiring was there to see. (they are very easy to get-at, too) So maybe those wires are best accessed there, too? Anyway, what I am saying is that this earlier work (LPG conversion) should make it easier to emulate your project? The moment that I AM able to fully control those rear windows will put a HUGE smile on my face!

David
 
#21 ·
O.K. I think that this is the way forward .... Purchased this switch : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universa...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 That can't be much cheaper. eh? Both the complete rear window units are easily accessible. That's the place to get into the wiring. Between the seats is a large storage box.I'll fit the new switch inside it and at the rear. That'll be quite discrete. I'll find an ignition live feed from my LPG conversion work and route it to that switch. Now because everything is there, behind the seats, wiring is short and neat. It's also hidden behind the rear cabin panel. I'll use a meter to identify the wires to the rear windows, so that I find the power-up/power-down feed's. I'll then combine each side so that the windows operate in unison. Well, it sounds easy! LOL! I'll let you know and put some photos on the site, shortly! Oh, I suppose that I should seperately fuse this modification? So how much current would you think that those rears will be drawing, and what grade of wire should i be using for the live feed?

David
 
#23 ·
Hi David

Sorry about not getting back to this thread but with all the great weather, I've been spending a lot more time outdoors than on my computer these days.
So it sounds you are on the right track and yes it is just as easy to tap into those rear window motors right behind the panels but I'm thinking from having a look at it, you might need to remove your seats. I just took mine out a few days ago. Four male torx head bolts. I didn't have the E sockets so I used a hex 10 mm socket and fitted it to my cordless impact. Worked without issues. Took me less than 15 minutes to take out both seats but be careful and be sure to remove the electrical connectors for the seat heaters , etc under each seat
As for the question about wire size, I think 12 AWG would be plenty heavy enough with a 10 amp fuse. The motors are relatively small (maybe 4-5 amps max each) and only operate for a few seconds to send the window up or down (so not continuous operation like you would find in a HVAC blower motor, wiper motor, etc )

Yes I would definitely fuse the circuit. Good luck
 
#22 ·
Well it looks like I'm having a discussion with myself, here! I suppose that this isn't too interesting to many others, then? Oh well .... I have realised that there is a cigarette lighter positioned in the central area between the seats. So I'm wondering if the feed to this is only live when the ignition is on and if there is sufficient current to have driven the rear windows? It would make a very convenient point from which to take the live-feed.
In my next post, I will answer my own questions ..... (that's if, as I'm suspecting, there is no response from the Forum)

David
 
#24 ·
I'm into it right now! You don't need the seats out. Taking the rear interior panel out is easy. The switch has just arrived. I MAY go straight from the cigarette lighter live? (Well, just to try it). Everything is fuse-protected, anyway. I'm feeling that if this does work perfectly, then all could benefit and have a wider range of window locations? The benefits are obvious. Let's see how it goes .....

David
 
#25 ·
I've spent a lot of time, today, on this .... Here's some of my findings ......
It's easy to access the necessary wires at the plug that connects power to either rear window. Everything can be left in place. Just use crimp connectors to take feeds off the two connecting wires on both sides. The current drawn is ~ 4 amps. It is transient, so 8 amp wire is more than adequate. The green/voilet wire on the RHS and the green/blue wire on the LHS, when given a +ve supply, will cause the rear windows to raise. So they should be combined. A good ignition live source is the cigarette lighter. It has twin live's and is fused. I think that it is suitable, but I'll check it out. The earth ..... The centre storage box is secured at the rear with two 10 mm hex nuts. That's where I took my earth feed(s). I mounted my 5-terminal switch inside the centre storage box at the FRONT vertical face. So with relatively short lengths of wiring (because everything is in close proximity) I had twin earth's, an ignition-live from the cigarette lighter and the two combined feeds to the rear windows. I had previously checked that providing a live and earth feed to the rear's caused them to rise. Then, by changing those wires over, it caused the window to be lowered. I connected everything up to the switch : Top pin window up, 2nd pin earth, middle pin ignition live, 4th pin earth, lower pin window down.
Eagerly turned the ignition key to try everything out ....... ZAP! , the fuse blew!
I suspect that the £2.95 switch is the culprit! I need a rocker switch that, in the upper position, provides a live and earth feed but when taken to the lower position reverses those feeds to an earth and live? At least I've done the ground-work and I've now got all the wiring neatly in place, in the central storage box between the seats.
So this is where a member could be of help to myself. Please advise as to a suitable switch that will definitely do what I need it to do? In the mean-time, I'll put everything back together and await that switch.

David
 
#26 ·
I wonder if anyone is interested in this thread? There was nothing wrong with the switch! It works fine. The problem was that it is not possible to simply tie-in the power feeds into the roof operation circuit. When power is applied to lift/lower the rears, it also travels back into circuit and the fuse blows. This reverse-flow could be eliminated by fitting diodes into the wires before the power connections are made. Using the live feed to the cigarette lighter IS suitable. It is fused at 15 amps and so is well within the power requirement of both rear windows.
I reverted to manual operation of the rear's, because I was determined to test things, today. There is the danger of operating the roof sequence with the rears still raised, but I think that I could fit a "flip" plate across the button with a warning reminder attached?. Anyway, it's only going to be temporary until I get things perfected.
This was the driving experience :-
I drove at up to the legal limit (70 MPH) The roof was lowered and both the front and rear windows were raised. I must add that I also have fitted to the SLK a full-width wind-deflector. The effect was remarkable and significant! I was surprised to find that it was quieter! I wasn't looking for that! Turbulence was VERY low and there was a very pleasant ambience to the whole drive. I am very, very pleased and at last, there is that S-M-I-L-E on my face! I've waited so long for this, you see.
Now to the appearance of the car .... With roof lowered and both windows raised, it has a continuous and "finished" profile. It doesn't look "chopped-off" any more. With the roof raised and BOTH windows lowered, it gives the SLK the appearance of a classic pillarless Mercedes Coupe. ( I can't remember which model that was) Anyway, it just looks Stunning!
It is hard to understand why Mercedes didn't incorporate these features from the model's inception?
I have a far, far better SLK, now!

David
 
#27 ·
I see that out of the 26 posts on this thread, I was level with "SgtMyagi" at 10 each. So now with this latest (and the forth in a row) I'm now ahead on 11! L.O.L.! ( It is said that talking to oneself is a sign of madness?) In my last post, I'd suggested that a way to prevent the current used to independently control the rear windows from getting back into the car's roof operating circuit would be to use diodes. However, I've realised that this wouldn't be possible, because the two supplying wires change from positive/negative to raise the windows and then change round to negative/positive, to lower the windows. Now because the direction of current flow has also changed with that action, then diodes fitted into the circuit downstream of the independent power-feeds are not going to work. It is difficult now to think of a way that allows the connection of a switchable power supply directly into the roof-control circuit, without that connection causing the fuse to blow?
Doubtless I will think of something and then I'll reply to myself on this thread. That'll make it FIVE posts in a row ... so don't go and spoil things by giving an input yourself, will you? LOL!

David
 
#30 ·
And yes, the diode solution would only work if you didn't need to reverse the polarity however from a quick examination of the schematics for the N10-3 connections , the internal relays IMO would isolate current from newly installed window circuits regardless. So yes, it is possible to just tap into the existing circuit without the need for diodes rather than cut the wires, but I didn't want to chance any damage to the module however small the chance might be. R)
 
#28 · (Edited)
O.K., nobody spoiled things by adding an input, so i can chat to myself, again! LOL! What was needed was a different switch to control power to the rear windows. This is the very switch! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/On-Off-O...382205?hash=item3b0fdf983d:g:5EgAAOSwKwpbFaWb It is perfect for this application and is rated at 15 amp. One switch direction is latching and the other is momentary. So the momentary action is to independently power the rear windows and the latching position is the normal roof operation circuit. I feel that this is a satisfactory outcome. I've already ordered the switch and with a little further wiring and experimentation, I should have an operational system. I will be able to discover if the normal roof operation circuit can cope with the rear windows being left in ANY position, prior to the operating button being pushed. I hope that this will be of benefit to other members. That's what this club is all about. Oh, this switch should do everything, because of that momentary position, so it's a "one-switch" mod. It can be located in the same position as the other switch. I'll keep this thread going with a further report of what this has achieved.

David
 
#29 ·
:wink:Ha Ha. You have a good sense of humour my friend. I often find myself talking to myself a lot these days too. Yes, I read your latest posts and I'm pretty sure from a quick look at the vendor's description of that switch, that it is not the right type. You need a reversing type of switch (5 or 6 pin) I will upload an image of the switch I purchased through Amazon which is described as a 5 pin window switch. I believe your switch is intended for momentary OR always on but do not switch the direction of the circuit. The fact that it blew the fuse immediately would seem to suggest that.
I did a search of the UK EBay site and could only find the metal type switches https://www.ebay.ca/itm/6-Pin-Toggl...684459?hash=item33e9d99b2b:g:hbsAAOSw~vpaRF~O

The fact that it is rated for 250v 15A is inconsequential to the application and if it is hidden away inside the console anyways, it may be what you are looking for. Or check with another vendor. Is there an Amazon UK ??
 

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#31 ·
I just read your 2nd to last post. So perhaps I misunderstood. Are you attempting to create a circuit where the windows either operate normally with the vario roof in one switch position & then roll up independently by flipping the switch the other direction ???
 
#32 ·
Yes, that's exactly what I'm attempting to do. You simply cannot combine the two power feeds directly to the rear-windows. (I.E., the new independent power-feed and the normal roof operation power-feed) The fuse always blows when independent power is applied to the rears. The switch that I've just shown IS suitable to keep the two power feeds separated , but you will not get the up/down feature when just using the one switch to control power to the rears. SO, I will need both switches. This is how it would work ..... the DPDT switch would have to be held in the momentary position whilst the other switch is also pressed up or down to move the rears to the desired position. It's a bit awkward and would really have to be done with the car stationary, but it WILL work! The switches obviously need to be adjacent to each other.
Just to elaborate on what I have in mind .... This switch ..... http://redirect.viglink.com/?format...www.ebay.co.uk/itm/On-Off-On...gAAOSwKwpbFaWb is connected directly to the rear windows power feed. That connection uses the common centre pins. Power coming from the independent source (and via the other, current reversing, up/down switch) goes to the top momentary terminals and power arriving from the roof operation circuit goes to the lower, latching terminals. Have I made that clear?

STOP PRESS! ..... A simple solution to the switch problem! I've changed the switch for a double-latching variety. So only one switch needs to be held at a time!

I'll let you know what I discover and the final lay-out.

David
 
#33 ·
I think you are going to need a DPDT relay for isolation and a momentary contact switch for reversing. Part of the problem is that there is no ground per se, rather is is a reversing circuit and I suspect either a pair of limit switches or force-opening switches to limit travel on each window.

Problem is that to do it with a single DPDT relay you will need a triple pole double throw center off momentary contact switch. To do it with a DPDT switch will require a second relay (or an Aruino)

When I get a moment I'll look at model railroad reversing switches.

ps am assuming you want to independently roll up or roll down. No idea id the roof will raise if rear windows are already up.
 
#34 ·
I think you are going to need a DPDT relay and a DPDT momentary contact switch. Part of the problem is that there is no ground per se, rather is is a reversing circuit and I suspect either a pair of limit switches or force-opening switches on each window.

When I get a moment I'll look at model railroad reversing switches.
WOW, thanks for yet ANOTHER input! They used to say this about London buses "you wait all day for a bus and then six arrive at once"! Have a look at what I've just said in my previous post? I do think that it would work .... the "momentary" part of things is the holding of that first switch? I'm not sure about what you're saying regarding the relay, though? At present, I'll be left with holding two switches simultaneously. It's not ideal, but I think that it WILL be effective? If you can improve on this, then thanks!

STOP PRESS! ..... A simple solution to the switch problem! I've changed the switch for a double-latching variety. So only one switch need s to be held at a time!

David
 
#35 ·
Why you need the center off and no need to hold two switches, guess I was "assuming" you wanted Up-Down independent of roof commands plus normal roof operation. If just want one way, that is much easier.

Maybe we need a logic table.

ps with a large amp reversing circuit we need to isolate the computer and the easiest/cheapest way is with a relay.
 
#37 ·
O.K., I'll look forward to that, BUT I can't see why my own method isn't going to work? Please have a look at it and give me your assessment as to its viability. The reversal of the polarity happens (in both cases), upstream of the final DPDT switch, you see. The only function of that switch is to keep the two incoming sources of power, independent.

David
 
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