Hakaze

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Hi hi,

My first post here at SLK World. Great site and I ordered my smartop from the store - too bad I ordered it just before V2 came out.

Now, my big question - I contacted Kleeman USA in CO and I was told that because EMS (Engine Management System) install is so complicated that they would like to do it themselves. Here's the e-mail from them:

THE REASON THAT WE RECOMMEND DOING IT HERE IS THAT THIS CAR REQUIRES A STAND ALONE EMS IN ORDER TO MAKE THE TRANSMISSION WORK PROPERLY.WE HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH EVEN OUR MORE EXPERIENCED DEALERS INSTALLING THIS SYSTEM.

Here's the second e-mail:

Rick,
Just wondering if I could get hold of installation instructions or if
you have any specs on the system which I can show to my local installer.
I would like to get a feel to see if they can possibly do it here or
not.
Thanks!!!

THE MOST YOU CAN GET WOULD BE ON OUR WEBSITE.WE REALLY DO WANT TO DO THESE CARS HERE BECAUSE OF PAST ISSUES.YOU COULD BLOW THE ENGINE.

Now, is it true that you could blow the engine with bad EMS install? Is it really that difficult that you HAVE to take your car to Kleeman HQ? I have never heard of SLK blowing an engine for whatever reason yet... I feel like I am being duped - the real question for you techies (DAN)... can I order the Kleeman blower, ECU, and LSD and trust local guys to install it (of course it would also depend on their competency)?

Thanks!!!

ierax

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What slk have you got? I guess it is a six cylinder or more.. I would suggest that you let kleeman install it properly.Your subject title sucks by the way ...You will be introducing forced induction to an engine that was not designed to do so. Proper ecu management is a must.
Kleeman utilises a parallel ecu known as a K-box that is used to alter engine parameters to the main ecu .I presume you have an automatic gearbox that will need modifying for the extra power produced? You will have to be more specific. Kleemann is highly regarded as a tuner and provided everything is installed properly you will be allright. Welcome to the forum

Hakaze

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Oops.... I guess I should have mentioned what kind of car I am driving. I also apologize about the title...it did blow, doesn't it?

I own a 2006 SLK55, no 030 option. I guess I understand the concern about proper install, but I can't see how the kit has to be installed by the Kleeman only...

So I really have two questions - one, is the install so difficult that it's easy to mess up the install?

Two, what's the possibility that messed up install of ECU blowing up the engine?

By the way, I live in Alaska, meaning shipping for the car to lower 48 (or even Canada) is not practical for $$ or time purposes...

DansSlk

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It all depends on the skill of the shop you take the car to.

Adding a blower itself does not take much work and since Kleeman make it as a kit any adapters or the wiring harness should be with it along with all the others parts associated.

If they are using a K-Box unit to trick the ECU into doing what they want it to do that unit should also be plug and play, if they are doing any more serious work like separating the transmission from parts of the electrical system and inserting aftermarket parts in its place then while they might be respected thats not good work to be doing and i would recommend you speak to another tuner.

It all comes down to your confidence in the installer the parts should be plug and play (well as much as possible with something like this) and i see no reason why it must be done at Kleeman HQ, Brabus uses its dealers to do even bigger jobs such as the 6.1S and if they can do that outside of Bottrop then there is no reason why Kleeman should struggle with a blower.

You don't wanna take it to any old place of course and a MB dealer would be a good bet since they have all the information needed when it comes to working on the cars bolt torque settings and such like but i don't see the need for it to go to Kleeman.

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ierax

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I am not sure whether you have perhaps misunderstood the transmission bit Hakaze,when you talked with your kleemann dealer. As DAN rightly points out, (and I have seen such a kit ) the Kleeman is a bolt-on kit that any competent mechanic could install.The parallel ecu - Kbox "steals" maf,map etc signals, adapts it to the parrallel ecu's map and then passes it on to the main ecu to feed upon (for an oversimplified explanation).Your engine should not have any trouble with that ,provided everything is installed correctly and you do some live checking that the engine is not pre-detonating,starving of fuel etc etc.
I can only presume as per the transmission that perhaps some adaptation is required (for example,is there a torque limit in the software Dan that may trigger a fault if its value is exceeded since the engine power will increase)? I doubt that your transmission will need mechanical strengthening since most of MB's designs are over-engineered at this respect.
So to answer in a nutshell
a) I do not see your engine blowing up if everything is installed correctly by a competent mechanic
b) I am unsure whether they replace any electronics parts relevant to the transmission as Dan points out. If it is just a sensor or two ,it is no big deal, but if we are talking about electronics parts that regulate transmission performance and operation (transmission ecu?-is there a seperate ecu on the can-bus that regulates the automatic gearbox of the 55 Dan?),then it is a thing to ponder about.You should clear up this thing with them,as to what exactly they do about the transmission.My guess is nothing at all.
I do not see the need for it to go to kleemann.Kleeman Danemark happily ships such kits around Europe without being obliged to fit it in your country's dealer (who may be a monkey with a wrench with extremely high installation fees- not that I am insinuating anything about anybody)

And taken straight from the horse's mouth regarding transmission tolerances :
The 7 speed 7G tronic transmission (722.9) is slowly being phased in to replace the 5 speed (722.6) transmission Mercedes Benz has used for the last 5 years. All new N/A V6 and V8 vehicles are now being built with the W7A 700 variant of the 7G tronic. The WA700 variant is endurance load rated by Mercedes Benz at 760 Nm (560 lbs/ft) of torque. This means the transmission will handle this amount of power continuously with out failure. There will never be a time where one can develop this kind of power continuously on the road. Momentary load ratings are easily 35 % higher than continuous ratings. The 7G tronic transmission will easily handle the performance from a KLEEMANN conversion. The 7G tronic has been available for nearly one year and KLEEMANN has modified many of these vehicles. None of these modified vehicles has had any trouble to date, many of them having logged in excess of 64,000 km (40.000 miles).

DansSlk

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Hey good post mate well done

To answer the questions -

There is no software limit imposed on the tranny it will continue to operate right up until it gets turned into mush, the limits tend to be imposed on the engine instead and that allows for a more standard VGS unit to be installed in the box and not different for each model the 7G is installed in.

The TCU's are located one in the shifter module its purpose i am sure can easy be figured out but basically it manages the operating modes Warm-Up, S, C, M's 1 & 2 and Limp-Home it also monitors the location of the shifter rod P,R,N,D,+,- and contains the lock-out that blocks the manual control rod from allowing the parking prawl to move back locking the car in P, all shift requests are sent to it and based on current data feeds it decides on what to ask the VGS for.

The VGS itself is installed inside the 7G is the central point of control of the box it receives all the data from inside the box and all the feeds from the car, it decides if shifts are acceptable or if they would cause unfavourable conditions and should be ingnored it is directly responsible for operating the shift valves to control flow of fluid. It also has modes for ESP Active and Cruise Control built in that can be activated if the car requests them and once they are active they assume all control of the box stoping the driver from controling the box and stopping the normal shift patterns even shifting the box out of D if the car needs it to.

Basically most of the time the ECU gets the engine ready for the shift the shifter module plans it all and then VGS simply executes the command, both units are on CAN-BUS so they can communcate with the rest of the car mostly via CAN-C (VGS especially since it only really needs engine data and shift to X now info) but both do communicate with CAN-B for certain messages - paddle requests for example.

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N4PWJ

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wow, didnt know you guys coudl speak double dutch.
very interesting, i now feel like an expert in kleeman superchargers and how they work.

Woolly

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Just in case 412Drivah is reading. . .

Thar is no sof'ware limit imposed on th' tranny it will corntinue t'operate right up until it gits turned into moosh, th' limits tend t'be imposed on th' engine instead an' thet allers fo' a mo'e stan'ard VGS unit t'be installed in th' box an' not diffrunt fo' etch model th' 7G is installed in, as enny fool kin plainly see. Th' TCU's is located one in th' shif'er module its purpose i is sure kin easy be figgerd out but basically it manages th' operatin' modes Warm-Up, S, C, M's 1 & 2 an' Limp-Home it also monito's th' locashun of th' shif'er rod P,R,N,D,+,- an' corntains th' lock-out thet blocks th' manual corntrol rod fum allerin' th' parkin' prawl t'move back lockin' th' car in P, all shif' requests is sent t'it an' based on current data feeds it decides on whut t'ax th' VGS fo'. Th' VGS itse'f is installed inside th' 7G is th' central point of corntrol of th' box it receives all th' data fum inside th' box an' all th' feeds fum th' car, it decides eff'n shif's is acceppable o' eff'n they'd cuz unfavourable corndishuns an' sh'd be in'no'ed it is direckly responsible fo' operatin' th' shif' valves t'control flow of fluid, cuss it all t' tarnation. It also has modes fo' ESP Ackive an' Cruise Control built in thet kin be ackivated eff'n th' car requests them an' once they is ackive they assoom all corntrol of th' box stopin' th' drivah fum corntrolin' th' box an' stoppin' th' no'mal shif' patterns even shif'in' th' box outta D eff'n th' car needs it to. Basically most of th' time th' ECU gits th' engine ready fo' th' shif' th' shif'er module plans it all an' then VGS simply executes th' comman', both units is on CAN-BUS so they kin communcut wif th' ress of th' car mostly via CAN-C (VGS especially on account o' it only pow'ful needs ingine data an' shif' t'X now info) but both does communicut wif CAN-B fo' sartin messages - paddle requests fo' example.

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2005 BMW LT - 16 countries, 2 CONTINENTS & counting
2004 MB SLK 350 Andradite Green (6 speed manual]
1999 Ducati ST2
2003 Vauxhaul Vectra
1974 Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V
1937 Norton 500 single
(all still current)

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N4PWJ

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haha very good Woolly