Why Was Corkscrew's Post About God Locked?

B55 · 12-09-2006

Easty, my good English brother, I must differ with you on locking Corkscrew's previous post and the reason you gave for it.

This thread is supposed to be about "anything but SLK talk." I don't see it posted anywhere that it is limited to "anything but SLK talk, except for religion and politics." I was intrigued by what Corkscrew had to say and wanted to respond. I think you were too quick on the trigger there Easty. We have a portion of the site like this so we can talk about off-topic subjects with our friends. Why must the site stay "religion and politics free"? I don't see that anywhere in the user agreement. No offense, but your reason for locking the post sounded like a personal preference to me Easty. Let the members decide what is posted in an "off topic" forum. If religion and politics are not wanted on this site, then posts regarding them will go unreplied to and they will fade away. But let the members decide what is put in a forum billed as "Any thing [sic] but SLK talk." What classifies as "religious" and/or "political" is so open to interpretation that you could lock nearly any post. What if I said, "Thank God I have my SLK." That could be construed as religious. Or what if I said, "I hate paying income taxes!" That could be made to sound political.

Let's not make it our game to conduct overbroad and generally arbitrary censorship of any post. That defeats the purpose of an "off-topic" area. I am not trying to be cantankerous or rude. I simply differ with you on this matter. I hope it does not ruffle any of your feathers.

Anyway, Corkscrew said:

"Karl Marx said that "Religion is the opiate of the masses," and he couldn't have been more correct. Religion is a drug that encourages you to not think for yourself, and, in my very humble opinion, is much worse and far more deadly than heroin, pot, cocaine, and alcohol all put together. None of these other drugs breeds contempt for other people, but all religions do in one way or another. Religion is the insidious evil of our planet, and the sooner people start to wake up to that the sooner we can get on to bigger, more important issues like peace and goodwill toward others."

This is the most well-known Marx quote. It is often misquoted and mistranslated in an attempt to support vitriol against religion. I think it is important that we see the whole quote from Marx. It gives a much different impression of what Marx was saying. It reads:

"Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions."

-Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right

While Marx did say that religion is the "sigh of the oppressed creature," he also said - in nearly the same breath - that religion is "the heart of a heartless world." My point isn't to tout the value of religion as much as it is to shed light on an oft misquoted saying that a lot of religion-haters like to turn to. If all one gets is the famous quote with an ellipses at the end without the rest of what Marx said, people are not getting the whole story.

Religion has played a huge role in my life - for good and bad. I think it is an interesting topic and wouldn't mind exploring it.

Lock this post if you like, but I think it is arbitrary and disappointing if you do.

**FishtailnZ** · 12-09-2006

I think it has been made quiet clear here from the start that political/religious discussions are not permitted and will be locked. Off Topic basically refers to anything exc those two. There are plenty of other sites to discuss such subjects and I for one agree with the board owners to keep this site as automotive only in nature as possible. Keep the rants and all the disturbances they cause off the site.

Ynot · 12-09-2006

I've been around internet forums for a long time and political and religious post always lead to personal attacks. Could never end up being just an intellectual debate. Generate alot of interest from people that would normally never visit the site, one time posters that feel the need to voice their opinions (usually harsh) and force their opinions onto others and obnoxious behaviors. Something I think Bill is aware of and wants to avoid, unless Bill wants more traffic from others that don't care about SLK's. Since this is not a sponsor site, Bill care less about hits to his site.

**dsb** · 12-09-2006

I agree, keep it off the site. My only other suggestion to moderators would be to simply lock it and provide NO agreement or disagreement to the subject.

**alroumi** · 12-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsb

I agree, keep it off the site. My only other suggestion to moderators would be to simply lock it and provide NO agreement or disagreement to the subject.

Second that.

**Woolly** · 12-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///AMG 55

This is my decision not to allow it on the forum.

Bill T

Bottom Line - this is Bills Forum - he puts an awful lot of effort into the way it is today. If threads get locked, then tough. - go with the flow.

**DesignoSLK** · 12-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woolly

Bottom Line - this is Bills Forum - he puts an awful lot of effort into the way it is today. If threads get locked, then tough. - go with the flow.

Here, here.

B55 · 12-09-2006

If that's the concensus, then that is the way it will be. A site like this is only as good as its membership. If talking about religion and politics will dilute the quality of membership, I don't want it either. That just has not been my experience. I enjoy having a good natured debate now and then. I meant nothing by it.

Take care.

**-1-** · 12-09-2006

I read B55s original post early this morning. I decided not to respond. Religion is a touchy subject that I'm not comfortable responding to. I must admit, I have plenty. Now politics, that's a different subject. Bill calls the shots here. I can't say I've EVER disagreed with him on ANYTHING including this.

FPF422 · 12-09-2006

I've seen it on a lot of forums... Those two subjects will only bring problems.

Wimbledon_SLK · 12-10-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPF422

I've seen it on a lot of forums... Those two subjects will only bring problems.

I agree

Corkscrew · 12-10-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///AMG 55

Easty is just following my lead on this one.

These topics get heated too fast. The web has many forums for these topics.

This is my decision not to allow it on the forum.

I could really get on my

about these topics. I feel there are better left off of this forum IMOP

Thanks and Please understand.

Bill T

Bill,

Upon reflection I agree. The comfortable thing about this forum is that everyone is pretty civil to one another. In the places where politics and religion is argued people easily become confrontational. Anyway, no amount of discussion is going to change people's minds on these two subjects.

**SLKman** · 12-10-2006

I too agree with keeping this forum civil and out of the "X" rated field.

If you want smut or bickering, you know where to go find that kind off topic section in the other forum.

Cudos to Bill for being a STAND UP GUY!!!!

SLKman

Baron7700 · 12-10-2006

while i may strongly agree or disagree on the on the the marx quote, i do agree with the consensus that even tho we are a sharp bunch, its those casual passer by one posters we wanna watch out for, and just not even start into it with other members. Its a good call.

However If anyone wants to discuss the quote they are more then welcome to message me on AOL instant messanger, as I am Baron7700.

B55 · 12-11-2006

I want to commend all who have responded to this post. I don't think I have ever seen such a civil discussion in my time on the web. I am in total agreement with the rest of you and will act accordingly.

I post on a lot of car forums. Most of them are full of kids and other posers who don't even own the vehicles they are pontificating about. This site is different. You guys are the real deal. You are mature, honest and polite. I want to thank you all for that.

I intend on spending more time here. I hope that I will continue to be welcome.

Take care.

Corkscrew · 12-11-2006

I just left that other MB place...how awful their 'off topic' section is getting...largely due to one really stupid kid.

This place is so civilized.

**etyu** · 12-11-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///AMG 55

... I would like to thank all of the members here for that.

Bill T

We should be thanking YOU Bill.

Baron7700 · 12-11-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by etyu

We should be thanking YOU Bill.

Yes, yes we should.

12-09-2006	#1 (permalink)
B55 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ladera Ranch, Ca Vehicle: Formerly "Beleriand" Other Toys: Porsche Turbo (997TT) Posts: 114 Country: Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Why Was Corkscrew's Post About God Locked? Easty, my good English brother, I must differ with you on locking Corkscrew's previous post and the reason you gave for it. This thread is supposed to be about "anything but SLK talk." I don't see it posted anywhere that it is limited to "anything but SLK talk, except for religion and politics." I was intrigued by what Corkscrew had to say and wanted to respond. I think you were too quick on the trigger there Easty. We have a portion of the site like this so we can talk about off-topic subjects with our friends. Why must the site stay "religion and politics free"? I don't see that anywhere in the user agreement. No offense, but your reason for locking the post sounded like a personal preference to me Easty. Let the members decide what is posted in an "off topic" forum. If religion and politics are not wanted on this site, then posts regarding them will go unreplied to and they will fade away. But let the members decide what is put in a forum billed as "Any thing [sic] but SLK talk." What classifies as "religious" and/or "political" is so open to interpretation that you could lock nearly any post. What if I said, "Thank God I have my SLK." That could be construed as religious. Or what if I said, "I hate paying income taxes!" That could be made to sound political. Let's not make it our game to conduct overbroad and generally arbitrary censorship of any post. That defeats the purpose of an "off-topic" area. I am not trying to be cantankerous or rude. I simply differ with you on this matter. I hope it does not ruffle any of your feathers. Anyway, Corkscrew said: "Karl Marx said that "Religion is the opiate of the masses," and he couldn't have been more correct. Religion is a drug that encourages you to not think for yourself, and, in my very humble opinion, is much worse and far more deadly than heroin, pot, cocaine, and alcohol all put together. None of these other drugs breeds contempt for other people, but all religions do in one way or another. Religion is the insidious evil of our planet, and the sooner people start to wake up to that the sooner we can get on to bigger, more important issues like peace and goodwill toward others." This is the most well-known Marx quote. It is often misquoted and mistranslated in an attempt to support vitriol against religion. I think it is important that we see the whole quote from Marx. It gives a much different impression of what Marx was saying. It reads: "Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." -Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right While Marx did say that religion is the "sigh of the oppressed creature," he also said - in nearly the same breath - that religion is "the heart of a heartless world." My point isn't to tout the value of religion as much as it is to shed light on an oft misquoted saying that a lot of religion-haters like to turn to. If all one gets is the famous quote with an ellipses at the end without the rest of what Marx said, people are not getting the whole story. Religion has played a huge role in my life - for good and bad. I think it is an interesting topic and wouldn't mind exploring it. Lock this post if you like, but I think it is arbitrary and disappointing if you do.

12-09-2006	#2 (permalink)
FishtailnZ Don't feed the trolls... Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nfld., Canada Vehicle: 2009 C63 pipelined Other Toys: Wife, kids, dogs... Posts: 1,513 Country: Thanks: 300 Thanked 226 Times in 101 Posts	I think it has been made quiet clear here from the start that political/religious discussions are not permitted and will be locked. Off Topic basically refers to anything exc those two. There are plenty of other sites to discuss such subjects and I for one agree with the board owners to keep this site as automotive only in nature as possible. Keep the rants and all the disturbances they cause off the site. __________________ - Bill Waiting on a 2009 C63 Fire Opal/Alpaca Premium+Media R.I.P. 2006 SLK55 Caspian Blue/Beige Stock 1/4 mile results: ET 12.72, trap 110.80, 60' 1.80 Some guys they just give up living and start dying little by little, piece by piece. Some guys come home from work and wash up and go racin' in the street... - B. Springsteen

12-09-2006	#4 (permalink)
dsb Elite SLK World Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NorCal Vehicle: '06 slk55 Posts: 1,176 Country: Thanks: 67 Thanked 122 Times in 42 Posts	I agree, keep it off the site. My only other suggestion to moderators would be to simply lock it and provide NO agreement or disagreement to the subject. __________________ SOLD! 06 Mercedes Benz SLK55 Caspian Blue / Black & Ash *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.*

12-09-2006	#9 (permalink)
-1- Don Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Virginia USA Vehicle: SLK 55 ///AMG The MON55TER on the block Posts: 2,232 Country: Thanks: 54 Thanked 57 Times in 41 Posts	I read B55s original post early this morning. I decided not to respond. Religion is a touchy subject that I'm not comfortable responding to. I must admit, I have plenty. Now politics, that's a different subject. Bill calls the shots here. I can't say I've EVER disagreed with him on ANYTHING including this. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. *----------------1-----------------* --------SLK 55 ///AMG--------- THE MON55TER ON THE BLOCK

12-10-2006	#13 (permalink)
SLKman Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Houston Texas Vehicle: 2000 Copper Designo Sport Posts: 1,063 Country: Thanks: 261 Thanked 73 Times in 35 Posts	I too agree with keeping this forum civil and out of the "X" rated field. If you want smut or bickering, you know where to go find that kind off topic section in the other forum. Cudos to Bill for being a STAND UP GUY!!!! SLKman __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 2000 SLK230 copper Designo Sport To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-09-2006	#3 (permalink)
Ynot Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Colorado Vehicle: 06' MBZ SLK Posts: 2,795 Country: Thanks: 135 Thanked 35 Times in 30 Posts	I've been around internet forums for a long time and political and religious post always lead to personal attacks. Could never end up being just an intellectual debate. Generate alot of interest from people that would normally never visit the site, one time posters that feel the need to voice their opinions (usually harsh) and force their opinions onto others and obnoxious behaviors. Something I think Bill is aware of and wants to avoid, unless Bill wants more traffic from others that don't care about SLK's. Since this is not a sponsor site, Bill care less about hits to his site.

12-09-2006	#8 (permalink)
B55 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ladera Ranch, Ca Vehicle: Formerly "Beleriand" Other Toys: Porsche Turbo (997TT) Posts: 114 Country: Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	If that's the concensus, then that is the way it will be. A site like this is only as good as its membership. If talking about religion and politics will dilute the quality of membership, I don't want it either. That just has not been my experience. I enjoy having a good natured debate now and then. I meant nothing by it. Take care.

12-09-2006	#10 (permalink)
FPF422 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Buizingen - Belgium Vehicle: '05 SLK 350 - 7G Posts: 852 Country: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I've seen it on a lot of forums... Those two subjects will only bring problems.

12-10-2006	#14 (permalink)
Baron7700 Elite SLK World Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pennyslvania Vehicle: 2006 Slk 350 Other Toys: Lots of ATV's Posts: 1,601 Country: Thanks: 3 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	while i may strongly agree or disagree on the on the the marx quote, i do agree with the consensus that even tho we are a sharp bunch, its those casual passer by one posters we wanna watch out for, and just not even start into it with other members. Its a good call. However If anyone wants to discuss the quote they are more then welcome to message me on AOL instant messanger, as I am Baron7700.

12-11-2006	#15 (permalink)
B55 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ladera Ranch, Ca Vehicle: Formerly "Beleriand" Other Toys: Porsche Turbo (997TT) Posts: 114 Country: Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	I want to commend all who have responded to this post. I don't think I have ever seen such a civil discussion in my time on the web. I am in total agreement with the rest of you and will act accordingly. I post on a lot of car forums. Most of them are full of kids and other posers who don't even own the vehicles they are pontificating about. This site is different. You guys are the real deal. You are mature, honest and polite. I want to thank you all for that. I intend on spending more time here. I hope that I will continue to be welcome. Take care.

12-11-2006	#16 (permalink)
Corkscrew Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Vehicle: 2008 S600, 2006 SL55AMG, 2005 SLK200k, 2004 280S Posts: 696 Country: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I just left that other MB place...how awful their 'off topic' section is getting...largely due to one really stupid kid. This place is so civilized.

12-13-2006	#19 (permalink)
DesignoSLK Professional TV Watcher Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany Vehicle: 2000 Designo SLK230 Posts: 1,716 Country:

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