Push-Button Start for SLK?

noregret4life · 07-20-2006

I know this is a longshot but i figured i would ask anyway.

Is there a possible chance to get a push-button start on the R171?

And i am not talking about the "Keyless-go"... just a start.

I know the Key has both IR and RF sync with the ignition, however if i instert the key and turn to position 2, without cranking the starter, would it be possible to wire in a button to simulate position 3 (start)?

Some guy on Ebay, selling various kits, said it was possible for the R171... though i have a feeling he has no clue what he is talking about.

A friend of mine has it in his BMW M-Roadster. So i thought it was an interesting mod.

**alroumi** · 07-20-2006

Now that would be Great, Reminds me of the DB9 Astonmartin

**etyu** · 07-20-2006

I prefer the FLIR. I'm okay with one click on the key at the ignition. It's not like you have to turn and hold and wait for the engine to start.

DansSlk · 07-20-2006

noregret i was thinking the exact same thing this morning mate and its the first time the idea has entered my head also kinda weird huh.

Anyway bit of bad news pal checked with the techs and the computer wiring diagrams and its a no go i am afraid when you turn the key to position 3 the EIS sends a coded message via CAN C to the ME-SFI it then prepares the engine for start and sends another request via CAN C to the CGW it then informs the Front SAM via CAN B to engage the start enable relays and replies to the ME-SFI using the same method but backwards and it takes over the starting procedure the EIS itself does not have a direct connection with the starter and because the CAN messages are encoded by the DAS3 system and are changed every start its not like we could build a module to simulate the commands either.
Its a shame as i was really hoping to have an SLR style starter button but **** happens i suppose also a weird bit of info i found out today using the computer about the start procedure.

The correct procedure is as follows -

1) insert the key obviously then turn it into POS1 wait for the child seat light to extinguish.

2)Turn the key to POS2 and wait for the PTS lights to go off.

3) flick the key into POS3 don't turn and hold just tap it basically and because the EIS does not have to do anything more than send a message the car will start itself without you holding the key.

You guys might already know this etyu obviously does but i thought i would post it anyways just incase you didn't apparently it give all the cars computers time to sync up and get start ready.

*easty* · 07-20-2006

If the key is still in there can all this still no happen if a connection is made for pos 3?

noregret4life · 07-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by easty

If the key is still in there can all this still no happen if a connection is made for pos 3?

Thanks for all the info DansSLK, I was aware of the whole process of the CAN communication with the key, however like easty is saying, can't that happen with the key in there and a button replacing the internal movement of the key to Pos3?

Inside the "key-hole" so to say, there have to be trigger switches, basic connections that let the rest of the system know which position the key is in. If this can be found, then perhaps a simulated turn to Pos3 can be created via a 3rd party button/pulse, whatever.
All other communications with the KEY and CAN can still happen as the only thing that changes is the turn position... Unless the IR sonsor is blocked till you turn to Pos3, then we are screwed as no access to it can happen with the key just sitting there.

... or maybe i'm dreaming here

**alroumi** · 07-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by noregret4life

Thanks for all the info DansSLK, I was aware of the whole process of the CAN communication with the key, however like easty is saying, can't that happen with the key in there and a button replacing the internal movement of the key to Pos3?

Inside the "key-hole" so to say, there have to be trigger switches, basic connections that let the rest of the system know which position the key is in. If this can be found, then perhaps a simulated turn to Pos3 can be created via a 3rd party button/pulse, whatever.
All other communications with the KEY and CAN can still happen as the only thing that changes is the turn position... Unless the IR sonsor is blocked till you turn to Pos3, then we are screwed as no access to it can happen with the key just sitting there.

... or maybe i'm dreaming here

You are really good in electronics

bejak · 07-21-2006

The optimum solution for me would be a sensor that could detect the car key even if you have it your pocket. You just have to sit in the car. Then a big red racing start button located where you normally put the key.

Bengt

DansSlk · 07-21-2006

I will pull up the EIS wiring diagram and see what it says in theory if there was a trigger inside the unit saying the key in in pos 3 then it would be possible but i am not sure how that works i will got back to you asap.

*easty* · 07-21-2006

Does it even go into pos 3 or is it just a spring that you push against then it sits in pos 2? I've had it not start then have to take the key out and put it in again.

noregret4life · 07-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by DansSlk

I will pull up the EIS wiring diagram and see what it says in theory if there was a trigger inside the unit saying the key in in pos 3 then it would be possible but i am not sure how that works i will got back to you asap.

Thanks DansSlk, you are indeed our oracle when it comes to official wiring infor

Easty, yes the key does sit in Pos2. As Pos3 is just for start.

In theory, because of all the communications with the CAN and other parts on start if we go to the root, which is the "trigger" i am hoping DansSlk can find for us, then it is actually great that we have all the complex electronics on the other end, becaue to initiate start sequence, all we really need is a Pulse off our Start Button. And even if you hit the start Button again after the car is running, Nothing will happen. Just like nothing happens when you do that with the key now. There is no "over cranking" as there is on other cars.

DansSlk · 07-21-2006

OK when you put the key in the ignition it is as i am sure you know held in place by the pre-lock solenoid when you turn the key into pos 1 a sensor that measures the rotation of the key slot instructs the EIS to begin communication via RF the same in pos 2 the system detects the movement of the key and send the appropriate commands to the EIS computer it then communicates via RF in each position the key is held in place by a small detent so it does not drop back to pos 0 for pos 3 same applies but it also pushes against the spring that will return it into pos 2 this also pushes the IR window open it is then held in place by a solenoid until IR communication is complete and is allowed to spring shut.

No IR communication happens in pos 3 as the key is only there for a spilt second so all the IR stuff happens in pos 2 if you could find a way to trick the position sensor into thinking the key had been moved into pos 3 and you could make something that applies pressure to the spring for a second then it should be possible.

It would mean dismantling the EIS to figure out what signals are sent by the position sensor its the same type as used in the electric windows so it is contact less and then doing some work to its insides to make it possible, the unit is bonded shut at the factory so if you would need to be brave and cut it open and of course if it breaks then it would mean major cash to repair but if it works then it would be really really cool, personally i think that risk would outweigh the benefit.

However the decision is yours and if you do decide to go ahead then i will be more than happy to provide you with whatever help you need tech drawings, wire diagrams, removal instructions whatever also you would need to mod the ETC to allow the wires down the shift rod and out of the box somewhere but that should be easy.

Hope this helps you if you have any more questions just ask.

Dan

By the way i must have been typing this as you and easty where posting your last two posts so i would just like to say thanks for the compliment noregret i am glad to be of help as i say if you decide to go ahead i would be mre than happy to help you as i would really like a start button that lights up like a baboons arse that would look real cool just like the SLR lift the flap and press

noregret4life · 07-21-2006

Wow... great info, bad news... but great info.

I agree, i would love to have the start button, but i guess it outweighs the benifits, and this would be a major pain unless one had the entire assembly as a spare to figure out. I have seen a used one for sale on Ebay at some point.

I do not think i have enough knowledge to perform such a mod, never mind the guts to take appart my own

But let us dream here for a second... New 3rd party alarms have module that transmit RF signals from digital keys to allow auto-start via remote. My father has it on this LS430 Lexus. They had to hide a key in the dash with the RF module to let it auto start. This however would not help, as we need an IR transmitter as well.

This it totally out there, but it would be great if they could just simply remove that entire key/EIS, attach a motorized control to the outside of the key, then hide the entire setup behind the dash. Have it connected Via a rolling code transponder that sends a signal to our rotating motor, which then turns the key. Install a BIG RED start button instead of the key hole in the EIS now, connect auto start from remote... Opps! almost fell off the chair dreaming here... haha

Perhaps i will install a big red button and connect it to an audio recording of my car starting... HAHA

DansSlk · 07-21-2006

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news mate its a shame as it would have been really cool.

We sometimes have cars in the shop with broken EIS units normally we dispose of them but i am sure i could dismantle one and have a look at i workings as its not like anybody else can use it cause its bust and coded to a car and as you say they turn up on Ebay also maybe use could take one of them apart it would be way to risky to use our own units as you point out we could end up with a dead car and a big bill.

The IR is the killer really the RF could be figured out but the IR is what will require the major mods of the EIS.

At least we can dream right mate, what i will do is have a word with the AMG Manufacture guys and see what they say about Keyless-Go they can sort most things but the price would be massive i know that for sure.

I will post back once i get a reply from them and Easty do you mean sometimes you turn the key into POS 3 and nothing happens or does nothing happen when you insert the key?

Dan

DansSlk · 07-21-2006

Noregret i spoke to AMG yes it is possible to have Keyless-Go on an SLK but it will require major work new ECU, ETC, EIS, ATA, Front and Rear SAM's, CGW, Antenna Amplifier and numerous sensors the units would have to be custom made and all work would have to be done at AMG for the price you could buy an SL so its not going to be practical to have it done.

Just thought i would post as i said i would check for you.

Dan

**alroumi** · 07-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by DansSlk

Noregret i spoke to AMG yes it is possible to have Keyless-Go on an SLK but it will require major work new ECU, ETC, EIS, ATA, Front and Rear SAM's, CGW, Antenna Amplifier and numerous sensors the units would have to be custom made and all work would have to be done at AMG for the price you could buy an SL so its not going to be practical to have it done.

Just thought i would post as i said i would check for you.

Dan

Thanks for sharing, Looks like its a hard job, I wouldnt do it if I were you noregret4life

noregret4life · 07-21-2006

looks like i am going to give this one up...

DansSlk · 07-21-2006

Sorry mate but at least you have your brake light project now

noregret4life · 07-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by DansSlk

Sorry mate but at least you have your brake light project now

No worries... as they say in OZ.

There is always a new project brewing in my head for the future...

Great to have a good source for info such as yourself Dan.

07-20-2006	#1 (permalink)
noregret4life Elite SLK World Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NJ Vehicle: '05 SLK350 Posts: 1,092 Country: Thanks: 1 Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts	Push-Button Start for SLK? I know this is a longshot but i figured i would ask anyway. Is there a possible chance to get a push-button start on the R171? And i am not talking about the "Keyless-go"... just a start. I know the Key has both IR and RF sync with the ignition, however if i instert the key and turn to position 2, without cranking the starter, would it be possible to wire in a button to simulate position 3 (start)? Some guy on Ebay, selling various kits, said it was possible for the R171... though i have a feeling he has no clue what he is talking about. A friend of mine has it in his BMW M-Roadster. So i thought it was an interesting mod.

07-20-2006	#2 (permalink)
alroumi Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kuwait City, Kuwait Vehicle: 2006 Kleemann Designo Mocha Black SLK55 AMG Other Toys: 2007 Ebony Jaguar XKR Coupe' and 06 Black Cayenne S Posts: 6,271 Country: Thanks: 288 Thanked 231 Times in 145 Posts	Now that would be Great, Reminds me of the DB9 Astonmartin __________________ 06 Kleemann Designo Mocha Black SLK55 AMG 06 Porsche Cayenne S 07 Jaguar XKR Coupe' I use the Torque and keep the HP for my Steak Sauce!

07-20-2006	#3 (permalink)
etyu Founding Member #2 / Ambassador Of Good Will Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Orange County, CA Vehicle: 2008 SLK 55 Posts: 5,279 Country: Thanks: 376 Thanked 277 Times in 168 Posts	I prefer the FLIR. I'm okay with one click on the key at the ignition. It's not like you have to turn and hold and wait for the engine to start. __________________ *Eddy* To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Pewter/Beige, PIII package, Airscarf, Hands-Free Communication System, Lighting package Designo Black Leather Cover on e-brake handle, ( To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Bill T), SmartTop v1.0, Kleyman 3BFM (NoRegret Custom), Green Air Filters, *Mod. R170 ant.*, EuroClear sidemarkers w/PIAA PlasmaIon lamps, chromed front & rear turn indicator lamps, PIAA SuperPlasmaGTX front parking lamps, bilateral rear fog lamps enabled.

07-20-2006	#4 (permalink)
DansSlk Dude Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales Vehicle: 05 B55S (Brabus 6.1 S) Posts: 6,752 Country: Thanks: 96 Thanked 221 Times in 173 Posts	noregret i was thinking the exact same thing this morning mate and its the first time the idea has entered my head also kinda weird huh. Anyway bit of bad news pal checked with the techs and the computer wiring diagrams and its a no go i am afraid when you turn the key to position 3 the EIS sends a coded message via CAN C to the ME-SFI it then prepares the engine for start and sends another request via CAN C to the CGW it then informs the Front SAM via CAN B to engage the start enable relays and replies to the ME-SFI using the same method but backwards and it takes over the starting procedure the EIS itself does not have a direct connection with the starter and because the CAN messages are encoded by the DAS3 system and are changed every start its not like we could build a module to simulate the commands either. Its a shame as i was really hoping to have an SLR style starter button but **** happens i suppose also a weird bit of info i found out today using the computer about the start procedure. The correct procedure is as follows - 1) insert the key obviously then turn it into POS1 wait for the child seat light to extinguish. 2)Turn the key to POS2 and wait for the PTS lights to go off. 3) flick the key into POS3 don't turn and hold just tap it basically and because the EIS does not have to do anything more than send a message the car will start itself without you holding the key. You guys might already know this etyu obviously does but i thought i would post it anyways just incase you didn't apparently it give all the cars computers time to sync up and get start ready. __________________ One thing you will learn with German cars - If it's simple it ain't happening.

07-20-2006	#5 (permalink)
easty Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Montreal Vehicle: ///AMG Posts: 2,075 Country: Thanks: 17 Thanked 19 Times in 9 Posts	If the key is still in there can all this still no happen if a connection is made for pos 3? __________________ "I'm not a roman mum, I'm a kike, a yid, a heebie, a hook-nose, I'm kosher mum, I'm a Red Sea pedestrian, and proud of it!" Life of Brian To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

07-21-2006	#8 (permalink)
bejak Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sweden, West Coast Vehicle: 2004 SLK200K R171, aut, Iridium Posts: 145 Country: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The optimum solution for me would be a sensor that could detect the car key even if you have it your pocket. You just have to sit in the car. Then a big red racing start button located where you normally put the key. Bengt

07-21-2006	#9 (permalink)
DansSlk Dude Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales Vehicle: 05 B55S (Brabus 6.1 S) Posts: 6,752 Country: Thanks: 96 Thanked 221 Times in 173 Posts	I will pull up the EIS wiring diagram and see what it says in theory if there was a trigger inside the unit saying the key in in pos 3 then it would be possible but i am not sure how that works i will got back to you asap. __________________ One thing you will learn with German cars - If it's simple it ain't happening.

07-21-2006	#10 (permalink)
easty Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Montreal Vehicle: ///AMG Posts: 2,075 Country: Thanks: 17 Thanked 19 Times in 9 Posts	Does it even go into pos 3 or is it just a spring that you push against then it sits in pos 2? I've had it not start then have to take the key out and put it in again. __________________ "I'm not a roman mum, I'm a kike, a yid, a heebie, a hook-nose, I'm kosher mum, I'm a Red Sea pedestrian, and proud of it!" Life of Brian To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

07-21-2006	#12 (permalink)
DansSlk Dude Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales Vehicle: 05 B55S (Brabus 6.1 S) Posts: 6,752 Country: Thanks: 96 Thanked 221 Times in 173 Posts	OK when you put the key in the ignition it is as i am sure you know held in place by the pre-lock solenoid when you turn the key into pos 1 a sensor that measures the rotation of the key slot instructs the EIS to begin communication via RF the same in pos 2 the system detects the movement of the key and send the appropriate commands to the EIS computer it then communicates via RF in each position the key is held in place by a small detent so it does not drop back to pos 0 for pos 3 same applies but it also pushes against the spring that will return it into pos 2 this also pushes the IR window open it is then held in place by a solenoid until IR communication is complete and is allowed to spring shut. No IR communication happens in pos 3 as the key is only there for a spilt second so all the IR stuff happens in pos 2 if you could find a way to trick the position sensor into thinking the key had been moved into pos 3 and you could make something that applies pressure to the spring for a second then it should be possible. It would mean dismantling the EIS to figure out what signals are sent by the position sensor its the same type as used in the electric windows so it is contact less and then doing some work to its insides to make it possible, the unit is bonded shut at the factory so if you would need to be brave and cut it open and of course if it breaks then it would mean major cash to repair but if it works then it would be really really cool, personally i think that risk would outweigh the benefit. However the decision is yours and if you do decide to go ahead then i will be more than happy to provide you with whatever help you need tech drawings, wire diagrams, removal instructions whatever also you would need to mod the ETC to allow the wires down the shift rod and out of the box somewhere but that should be easy. Hope this helps you if you have any more questions just ask. Dan By the way i must have been typing this as you and easty where posting your last two posts so i would just like to say thanks for the compliment noregret i am glad to be of help as i say if you decide to go ahead i would be mre than happy to help you as i would really like a start button that lights up like a baboons arse that would look real cool just like the SLR lift the flap and press __________________ One thing you will learn with German cars - If it's simple it ain't happening. Last edited by DansSlk; 07-21-2006 at 10:45 AM.

07-21-2006	#13 (permalink)
noregret4life Elite SLK World Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NJ Vehicle: '05 SLK350 Posts: 1,092 Country: Thanks: 1 Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts	Wow... great info, bad news... but great info. I agree, i would love to have the start button, but i guess it outweighs the benifits, and this would be a major pain unless one had the entire assembly as a spare to figure out. I have seen a used one for sale on Ebay at some point. I do not think i have enough knowledge to perform such a mod, never mind the guts to take appart my own But let us dream here for a second... New 3rd party alarms have module that transmit RF signals from digital keys to allow auto-start via remote. My father has it on this LS430 Lexus. They had to hide a key in the dash with the RF module to let it auto start. This however would not help, as we need an IR transmitter as well. This it totally out there, but it would be great if they could just simply remove that entire key/EIS, attach a motorized control to the outside of the key, then hide the entire setup behind the dash. Have it connected Via a rolling code transponder that sends a signal to our rotating motor, which then turns the key. Install a BIG RED start button instead of the key hole in the EIS now, connect auto start from remote... Opps! almost fell off the chair dreaming here... haha Perhaps i will install a big red button and connect it to an audio recording of my car starting... HAHA

07-21-2006	#14 (permalink)
DansSlk Dude Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales Vehicle: 05 B55S (Brabus 6.1 S) Posts: 6,752 Country: Thanks: 96 Thanked 221 Times in 173 Posts	Sorry to be the bearer of bad news mate its a shame as it would have been really cool. We sometimes have cars in the shop with broken EIS units normally we dispose of them but i am sure i could dismantle one and have a look at i workings as its not like anybody else can use it cause its bust and coded to a car and as you say they turn up on Ebay also maybe use could take one of them apart it would be way to risky to use our own units as you point out we could end up with a dead car and a big bill. The IR is the killer really the RF could be figured out but the IR is what will require the major mods of the EIS. At least we can dream right mate, what i will do is have a word with the AMG Manufacture guys and see what they say about Keyless-Go they can sort most things but the price would be massive i know that for sure. I will post back once i get a reply from them and Easty do you mean sometimes you turn the key into POS 3 and nothing happens or does nothing happen when you insert the key? Dan __________________ One thing you will learn with German cars - If it's simple it ain't happening.

07-21-2006	#15 (permalink)
DansSlk Dude Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales Vehicle: 05 B55S (Brabus 6.1 S) Posts: 6,752 Country: Thanks: 96 Thanked 221 Times in 173 Posts	Noregret i spoke to AMG yes it is possible to have Keyless-Go on an SLK but it will require major work new ECU, ETC, EIS, ATA, Front and Rear SAM's, CGW, Antenna Amplifier and numerous sensors the units would have to be custom made and all work would have to be done at AMG for the price you could buy an SL so its not going to be practical to have it done. Just thought i would post as i said i would check for you. Dan __________________ One thing you will learn with German cars - If it's simple it ain't happening.

07-21-2006	#17 (permalink)
noregret4life Elite SLK World Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NJ Vehicle: '05 SLK350 Posts: 1,092 Country: Thanks: 1 Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts	looks like i am going to give this one up...

07-21-2006	#18 (permalink)
DansSlk Dude Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales Vehicle: 05 B55S (Brabus 6.1 S) Posts: 6,752 Country: Thanks: 96 Thanked 221 Times in 173 Posts	Sorry mate but at least you have your brake light project now __________________ One thing you will learn with German cars - If it's simple it ain't happening.