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Old 05-15-2009   #1 (permalink)
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Default Fuel additives and engine tick/knock/sluggishness/hesitation

Fuel additives and engine tick/knock/sluggishness/hesitation

Tuesday evening, leaving enclosed parking garage at work. I start my 09 55 amg as usual. (background: baby will be 1 yr old 5/22/09. 17600 miles). Since I clean my car twice a day and know even a mosquito has landed and left little bitty feet marks, I was surprised to hear a tick, tick, tick sound as soon as I started the car. Hmmm, I say to meself, that is not normal. Whether in gear at idle or driving slowly I heard it. I also noticed something I did not notice before. Hesitation on acceleration. I take off to Mercedes and of course, once car is warm no sound, so I leave it for them to check out with engine cold in the morning.
I check the next day and they say I have a slight case of engine knock. Engine knock? I use Shell 93 which is in the top tier of gasolines:
What is TOP TIER Gasoline designation?
In 2004, BMW, General Motors, Honda and Toyota established the TOP TIER program, which established criteria for detergency levels in Gasoline higher than those currently set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). This standard established requirements for the design of Gasolines that keep engine parts cleaner than lower-quality Gasolines by providing reduced fuel-related deposits, resulting in better engine performance.
Top Tier Gasoline Retailers:

TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Retailers

Gasoline retailers must meet the high TOP TIER standards with all grades of gasoline to be approved by the automakers as providing TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.

In addition, all gasoline outlets carrying the brand of the approved retailer must meet the TOP TIER standards.

Additional gasoline retailers are added to the TOP TIER list as they meet the standards. The retailers known to be on the TOP TIER list are shown below.

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TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:

USA Canada
76 Stations Chevron Canada
Aloha Petroleum Esso
Chevron PetroCanada
Conoco Shell Canada
CountryMark Sunoco Canada
Entec Stations
Exxon
Holiday Stationstores, Inc.
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
MFA Oil Co.
Mileage Stations
Mobil
Phillips 66
Quik Trip
Rebel Oil
Road Ranger
Severson Oil
Shell
Texaco
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Tri-Par Oil Co.
U.S. Oil

MB says, well, do you pamper it? I say, ‘you’re joking right? I have a lead foot! I do 100 on the interstate. I attempt to beat all challengers off the line.’ So I say, What’s the fix? They say, Chevron Techron Concentrate. I say, an additive? You’re saying the fix for ping/knocking/hesitation on a $70,000 09 amg with 17000 miles is an additive?!!! They say yup!
Now in my 37 years of driving (age 55) I have never, ever used an additive. Don’t believe in em. Waste of money in my opinion. I remember those stp commercials!
MB says that is what they recommend for this issue with amgs:
Although Techron Concentrate is not precisely the same formulation as used in our gasolines, its formulation is derived from the same unsurpassed polyether amine chemistry. Roughly speaking, it is about 10 times stronger than the formulation added to our retail gasolines. If you use a Chevron-family gasoline (Texaco and Chevron with Techron) regularly, you shouldn't need to use a concentrate unless you have a particularly sensitive vehicle or use your vehicle in very severe conditions.
So I have half a tank of gas left. I go to autozone and pick up:

Techron Concentrate Plus Fuel System Cleaner
Exclusive Synthetic Formula. Whether protecting your new valuable investment, restoring your used car to its original performance, or simply keeping your engine as clean as it can be, Techron Concentrate Plus delivers a number of unsurpassed benefits and one unique benefit - the ability to eliminate faulty fuel gauge readings. Techron Concentrate Plus can help:
RESTORE
• Fuel efficiency
• Operation of broken fuel gauge sensors
• Lost power and improve drivability
CLEAN
• Sulfur corrosion from fuel gauge sensors
• Combustion chambers, intake valves, and ports
PREVENT
• Engine knocks and pings, spark plug fouling and cold start issues
• Harmful sulfur components from attacking sensitive electronic fuel sending units
PROTECT
• Fuel gauge from malfunctioning by coating all metal surfaces of the car's fuel system.
Now I don’t want this to sound like a commercial but I poured it in my half a tankful of gasoline and drove to the nearest Chevron station approximately 3 miles away to fill up. (It comes in 2 sizes for 12 gallon and 20 gallon tanks. They recommend a ¾ empty tank).
The car had no hesitation!!! This was before filling it up! I kid you not! The next morning, I listened intently for any tick or ping or hesitation. None! I leave home at 530 am so the streets are quiet and you know how you can sometimes hear engine noise when things are quiet reverberating from the houses? Nada! I wait until the car warms up ( the engine temp gets to 80c and stops blinking) and I punch it! WHOA MAMA!
When I left work yesterday (enclosed parking garage), engine cold, I hold my breath as I start the engine. Whew, nothing but that sweet, throaty sound.
Sorry, for this long winded tirade, but I am convinced this product solved this issue and highly recommend it. It can be used every 3000 miles. Would like to hear from any other secret Chevron Techron Concentrate users.
Have a nice Weekend!
Jeff
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Old 05-15-2009   #2 (permalink)
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Thanks for the narrative jbanks. 95% of the time I use Chevron gasoline but this is good to keep in mind.
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Old 05-15-2009   #3 (permalink)
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Hi Jeff mate, my personal view is fairly limited here, i was taught by MB never to use/recommend additives over and above what is already in the fuel because you can get too much of a good thing going, i don't design fuels or additives so i can't comment on the technical side too much but i can see both points.

Extra additives = cleaner engine / extra additives = engine attack.

Legin should know
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Old 05-15-2009   #4 (permalink)
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I too know nothing... or I should say.. very little about fuel additives.

I do know oil additives are snake oil. But that's apples, this is oranges.

I would think that with your attention to detail you'll be letting us know if using it creates a long term issues.

My questions are.

Did they recommend you use it once? only when you hear it ping? or continually until the day you and the car part?
Did MB recommend this? or the MB dealer? ( I once had a lengthy discussion with a VW dealer over their practices of using an oil additive during regular services. Turns out the dealer was part owner of the company that was supplying the oil additive to them.)
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Old 05-15-2009   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks all for the input.


No, they said you could use it every 3000 miles if desired and all the reviews I have read were all positive. they did not mention about only when pinging, but if the acceleration boost is an indication of whatever was taking place now being resolved I can see me using it every 3000 miles for the less than $10 it costs.

The mb dealer says that they recommend that to all who drive 'amgs' but other than this fix, there is none.
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Old 05-15-2009   #6 (permalink)
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A couple days ago, I had a 5 year service done at an AMG performance center. Part of the service was the fuel injection service. One of the things they did was add a fuel additive.
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tslick, do you know what kind of additive? maybe it is written on your service order. just want to know what brand they use. thanks
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I'll get back to you later on that, the car is back in the shop for warranty items. Having the lower arm bushings, harmonic balancer replaced. The work order is in the car.
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Old 05-16-2009   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks, Jbanks15.I just realized recently that my engine seems to give a slight knocking noise when I first start it up in the morning. I think I'm gonna try it over the weekend and see how well it goes for me.
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Let us know. I've been cautioned, that just like alcohol, tobacco and illegal drugs, if you overdo, your car will get hooked and need a fix more than it should or need.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbanks15 View Post
tslick, do you know what kind of additive? maybe it is written on your service order. just want to know what brand they use. thanks
No P/N for the additive, has a typical description of the service that includes "then a powerful fuel system cleaner is added to the fuel tank.....", funny. The fuel kit P/N is 210-2 and $43.00 material. Sounds like an internal P/N but who knows. Maybe listed in startekinfo.
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Startek recommends Techron Concentrate Plus Fuel System Cleaner (588 ml, 20 fl oz container). Look at page 15.
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Thanks tslick. So there we have it. MB recommends Techron Concentrate. walmart sells the 12 fl oz size for $6.99.
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Old 05-16-2009   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tslick View Post
Startek recommends Techron Concentrate Plus Fuel System Cleaner (588 ml, 20 fl oz container). Look at page 15.
HaHa When I first read it fast, I thought it said... StarTrek recommends... LOL

Hmmmm Maybe the StarTrek Enterprise was a Mercedes???

Benz me up, Scotty! LOL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbanks15 View Post
Thanks tslick. So there we have it. MB recommends Techron Concentrate. walmart sells the 12 fl oz size for $6.99.
Awesome! So $43 for $10 OTC meds. Sounds about right for the stealership Why am I not surprised? When I owned an Acura and had it serviced for regular oil change at the dealership, they used to put in a fuel system cleaner every oil change. First couple times, they snuck it by and I never really paid attention to my invoice, just thought it was inflation. They'd charge me like $20 for it (easy $$) and it was the same thing I could buy for $7 at your local parts store. Finally, I started putting it in myself and telling them not to do it.

I think I'll go buy a couple of these and water both the horses
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_74 View Post
Awesome! So $43 for $10 OTC meds. Sounds about right for the stealership...
Be careful, a kit means more than the fluid.
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Old 05-17-2009   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tslick View Post
Startek recommends Techron Concentrate Plus Fuel System Cleaner (588 ml, 20 fl oz container). Look at page 15.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbanks15 View Post
Thanks tslick. So there we have it. MB recommends Techron Concentrate. walmart sells the 12 fl oz size for $6.99.
Thank you both Jbanks and Tslick for good information.

This site saves its members time and money, well worth the support by being a contributing/paying member (shameless plug )

I think I'll stick with Chevron gasoline (as recommended by service advisor a while ago in 1996 when I had the E300).
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Old 05-24-2009   #18 (permalink)
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Check pep boy's memorial day flyer. buy 1, get 1 free instantly at checkout:
techron fuel system cleaner 12 oz, reg $7.99. limit 2 offers.
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Old 09-20-2009   #19 (permalink)
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I tried this yesterday, mainly because the engine has 22,200+ miles on the clock and noted some very mild ticking sound from the left bank of the engine (driver side for LHD). The fuel gauge indicated 1/4 (roughly 4.6 gal); stopped at local Chevron station and poured in the Techron Concentrate Plus (treats up to 12 gallons) followed by 7.5 gal of Premium Unleaded gasoline, and drove around.

I must say there is a noticeable difference when you depress the accelerator pedal at a rapid rate. The car feels like everything was slippery and smooth, engine exhaust sounded like everything wasn't a problem, like it was saying, "give me all you've got, I can handle it." The mild ticking sound disappeared. I figure/guess it was some mild carbon deposit on one of the valves.

Just wanted to post my experience.
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Old 09-20-2009   #20 (permalink)
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eddy, your 08 has 22k and my 09 has 23k. !!!
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